Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<Yes, it is. It's quite a lot like that.>> <Anyone reading the articles will see that it is not.> Anyone? I don't think so. Of those here who did read it, all but you pointed out the weaknesses in the article, and that it was easily refuted. You fall back on "if you'd just read it, you'd see!" Well, no. <<Of course I did. Many of us did, and responded to specific points. Because we don't agree with them or can easily point out their logical flaws doesn't mean we didn't read them.>> <If you had actually read and understood them, you wouldn't be claiming that they are based on a discredited study.> Ah, your latest tactic, as pointed out elsewhere. If someone reads one of your links and disagrees with it or points out its flaws, it's because that person "doesn't understand" it. What a crock. <<Let's review: you said I "couldn't" show any stats about MA showing a lack of negative effect on MA due to gay marriage.>> <No, I specifically mentioned two stats that would show whether there had been a negative effect on MA. You provided neither.> I looked for them and couldn't find them. It's probably it's just too recent. But I did find a third stat, that of divorce rate, which showed a DECLINE in MA, so at least I showed that. You showed... oh yeah, that's right. Absolutely bupkis. <<That's a hard fact.>> <It's also inconclusive.> That's a convenient conclusion. Bottom line: you can't show any negative stats, and the one stat available shows a net positive, in the decline of the divorce rate. As for the specter of churches "forced to" marry gay couples (or recognize their marriages), that's a non-starter. No church today can be forced to marry any straight couple, so this would not change for gay couples. This is very different from the question of churches receiving public funds and if they can discriminate on other matters. Every church has its own rules. You can't just walk into a Catholic church, for instance, and say "marry us." You have to be Catholic, and neither of you can be divorced (or if you are, you have to have an official annulment of your previous marriage). Don't fit those criteria? The Catholic church won't marry you. (On the other hand, if one of you was previously married in another church, that's usually okay, as in the Catholic church's mind, that marriage didn't "really" exist. No can force them to recognize anything they don't want to.) Nor can that couple denied by the Catholic church go to the government and claim discrimination. The government, quite rightly, will say that's a church matter. That's part of the separation of church and state. Other churches have even tighter rules, some requiring you to be a member of that particular congregation, not just the denomination. Bottom line is, straight couple X can't just walk into a church and say "marry us next Saturday." Every church can say "yes" or "no" to that, and that won't change, although some like to fear-monger that it will. But it's ridiculous on the face of it.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <He can't answer it. Simple as that.> And you can't answer my questions. So what?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <If someone reads one of your links and disagrees with it or points out its flaws, it's because that person "doesn't understand" it.> If they are misrepresenting it, then they either didn't understand it, or they are being purposely deceitful. You are misrepresenting it. <As for the specter of churches "forced to" marry gay couples (or recognize their marriages), that's a non-starter.> No, it's not. Already, as I pointed out, people are saying that if gay marriages become recognized by the state, churches that refuse to perform them should lose their tax-exempt status. I couldn't find the article I referred to earlier, but I did find the particulars. A few years back, in a town in BC, a lesbian couple rented a hall owned by the Knights of Columbus for a wedding. When the KoC found out, they told them they wouldn't rent to them. The couple brought action against the KoC, and the Canadian government leveled a fine. That's the kind of thing that will start happening here if gay marriages are recognized.
Originally Posted By X-san ***That's the kind of thing that will start happening here if gay marriages are recognized.*** Good.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I couldn't find the article I referred to earlier, but I did find the particulars. A few years back, in a town in BC, a lesbian couple rented a hall owned by the Knights of Columbus for a wedding. When the KoC found out, they told them they wouldn't rent to them. The couple brought action against the KoC, and the Canadian government leveled a fine. That's the kind of thing that will start happening here if gay marriages are recognized." Yes, we all shudder at the thought of lesbians being treated equally.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<If someone reads one of your links and disagrees with it or points out its flaws, it's because that person "doesn't understand" it.>> <If they are misrepresenting it, then they either didn't understand it, or they are being purposely deceitful. You are misrepresenting it.> No, I'm not. Show me how, please. With specifics. <<As for the specter of churches "forced to" marry gay couples (or recognize their marriages), that's a non-starter.>> <No, it's not. Already, as I pointed out, people are saying that if gay marriages become recognized by the state, churches that refuse to perform them should lose their tax-exempt status.> If people are saying that, they're wrong. No Catholic church is going to lose tax-exempt status because they refuse to marry non-Catholics, or divorced Catholics. It's not going to happen, and people who say it SHOULD happen are wrong - it's called separation of church and state. No church has ever been forced to marry anyone, or suffered any loss of tax status for refusing to do so. And people have always been able to marry without any church if they so choose also. <I couldn't find the article I referred to earlier, but I did find the particulars. A few years back, in a town in BC, a lesbian couple rented a hall owned by the Knights of Columbus for a wedding. When the KoC found out, they told them they wouldn't rent to them. The couple brought action against the KoC, and the Canadian government leveled a fine. That's the kind of thing that will start happening here if gay marriages are recognized.> And those things can be taken on their merits. But your example has nothing to do with a church being forced to marry someone.
