Originally Posted By Dabob2 And the people who favored segregation often swore they didn't dislike black folks. (I know this. I was related to some of them, and though I was a kid, remember well them saying just this). They just didn't want to mess with the "southern way of life" or their "heritage."
Originally Posted By Dabob2 And, I might point out, some of these folks really DIDN'T dislike black people. They weren't malicious. There was just a disconnect in their minds between what they favored and the consequences for other people.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>Pat Robertson would want you to be healthy and he would want you to have the person of your choice in the hospital. Same goes for Dobson and Falwell.<< No, they'd all tell me that I my illness is God's punishment for my "sinful lifestyle."
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Take that extra "I" out. If STPH is the King, Mele is the Queen, I guess that makes me the Prince.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Hey don't knock the YMCA as I loved the VP in the seventies. Village People. Y M C A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sing along!!!!!!!!!!1
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Dabob--post 173-again racism and being against gay marriage is a specious argument. It is NOT discrimination! Please think about it. Racism compared to discrimination against gays IS a valid and very good analogy. To be like Pass--Get it!??
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Post 166--feisty Mele! I really am glad to see you back and healthy which is Oh mais importante. sp portuguese> can you tell I was in office all day TRYING my polyglot thing?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I used to be Polyglot too, but then I met my wife and she made me stop. ;-)
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>Aw, you can be the queen, too, if you want. ;-)<< No, thank you! I had my reign in 2003. ;-) We were in Napa County for a long weekend when we had a medical emergency; I had an arterial blood clot and had to have emergency surgery to remove it. So anyway, the name of the hospital is...Queen of the Valley. (You can see where this is going, can't you?) I was getting flowers and gifts from friends and family, and the florist cards all read: "Tim ______, Queen of the Valley." It took a while to live THAT one down.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Dabob--post 173-again racism and being against gay marriage is a specious argument. It is NOT discrimination! Please think about it. Racism compared to discrimination against gays IS a valid and very good analogy. To be like Pass--Get it!??> Joe, I have thought about it - with respect, I imagine I've thought about it quite a bit more than you have. I'm very careful about how I compare racism and homophobia, and things like being opposed to integration and (now) gay marriage. They are not exact analogs (nothing ever is), but certainly there are parallels. People like John Lewis and Coretta Scott King (who know a thing or two about it) have said so many times. And yes, disallowing marriage for gay people is discrimination. Sexual orientation is intrinsic to the individual. Straight marriage would be a sham for me. Yet I am not allowed (legally) to enter into marriage with the person I do love and make my life with. Of course, morally we are already married. Our church recognizes it. Our families recognize it. Our friends recognize it. To a degree our employers recognize it. Yet our country does not. How do you suppose that makes us feel? Put another way, you are allowed to be married to the one you love and have it recognized by the state; I am not. That's discrimination no matter how you slice it.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe We just disagree Dabob but I really think it's supercilious of you to say you've thought about it more than me. I think you HAVE any your imagination is correct as you are gay so I hope you have thought about it more than me. The point is you can't say what I think until we have a sit down and talk. This internet thing is NOT my medium and does NOT project actually all the thoughts and feelings that go into my rationale. Again ---Not allowing gay marriage is NOT discrimination and the courts say I'm right unlike the Black racism question where discrimination is NOT allowed. This is a country of laws not people. I appreciate the thought you put into though and I respect you and to reiterate, if I was Gay I probably would be for gay marriage too???????? I don't know and am honest enough to say that. To reiterate I will NOT allow discrimination of ANY kind in my life as I have always been a freedom fighter from being the only white to work for the Black Panthers in Dayton Ohio in the late 60's and on and on.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Again ---Not allowing gay marriage is NOT discrimination" Sure it is. You're targeting a certain class of people and preventing them from exercising a fundamental right.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "This is a country of laws not people." Which is why I focus on the law when it comes to this topic. Ultimately, a court will decide this issue. No other arena applies.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Sexual orientation is intrinsic to the individual. Straight marriage would be a sham for me. Yet I am not allowed (legally) to enter into marriage with the person I do love and make my life with.>> What about people who were born pedophiles? Do they get to use the same argument so they can justify marrying children? After all, it's "intrinsic ". And no I'm not calling gays pedophiles ( even though Nambla is a gay site primarily ). I'm just saying that anyone who thinks they are born a certain way can argue this to change the meaning of marriage. Hey STPH, you never answered my question... but I'm not surprised.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Hey STPH, you never answered my question... but I'm not surprised." Sure I did. You just don't like the answer. How's the legal research coming, Ace?
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Pass--You're exactly who I was writing for as I know that we are on the same page on this one. I tend to get emotional as Mele and others do about these issues but I give you credit for being level headed even on this issue and go strictly by the rule of law. We certainly don't want the alternate as in anarchy.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Beau does have an extreme analogy but an analogy nonetheless as why I think gay marriage in NEVER going to pass. Again, to be tautological as I'm wont to be, it's the religious and moral questions that will keep the male/female marriage as the only viable, LEGAL marriage. IMHO----I could be wrong?
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder And I'm waiting for someone to refute post 185, because that's really the crux of the issue. Show me some case law that supports the proposition that gays aren't a targeted class, and therefore aren't the subjects of discrimination. Presently, they are not allowed to marry a person of their choosing. Society evolves folks, sometimes in ways that not everyone is comfortable with or even cares to see. Nonetheless, we've reached a point in time where this issue won't go away until it is resolved. Like it or lump it, it's here.
