Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "I have a question. Why do gay people want to get married? Why is this so important to them? Why isn't a civil union type arrangment good enough?" So you admit you know nothing abiut equality. Why did black people want to drink out of any fountain they wished? Why did they not want to sit in the back of the bus? Why did the slaves want to be freed? After all, they got free room and board. Why did women want the right to vote?
Originally Posted By jasmine7 <<Why do gay people want to get married? Why is this so important to them? Why isn't a civil union type arrangment good enough?<< Why do straight people want to get married? Whi is this so important to them? Why isn't a civil union type arrangement good enough?
Originally Posted By cape cod joe It's all about line drawing. Where do you draw the line. Do Americans find it acceptable to see gay couples going hand in hand in public? How do straight couples explain that to their kids? I know I stopped taking the kids to PTown a few years back so I wouldn't have to explain why the men there wore better clothes than my wife (she made that comment). Soon I'll start taking them again when they are old enough to understand that God made us all different. It's just very difficult to "accomodate" all those differences in a democratic society I think. I'm all for civil unions but against gay marriages For the Record. If I was gay I'd probably be for gay marriage as many of my friends are. I think marriage is a priviledge not a right, but I also think gays should have those same "rights" like anyone in this country. Heck it took till the the 19th Amendment to get ratified by the House and Senate in 1919 to even get women equal rights!
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Why isn't a civil union type arrangment good enough?" ----So you admit you know nothing abiut equality.>> Sorry, but you just blew it. There is NO equality issues here. This is where you you have a disconnect from the majority of Americans who get it. Every INDIVIDUAL person is free to get married. Do you understand the word individual? No person, whether heterosexual or homosexual, has ever had a legal right to marry simply any willing partner. Does this make sense to you since you are a guy who went to law school? Every person, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is subject to legal restrictions as to whom they may marry. Your a lawyer, why is this so hard to understand? Every person, regardless of sexual preference, is legally barred from marrying a child, a close blood relative, a person who is already married, or a person of the same sex. There are reasons for these restrictions. Or do I need to spell them out? There is no discrimination here, nor does such a policy deny anyone the "equal protection of the laws" (as guaranteed by the Constitution), since these restrictions apply equally to every individual.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<It's all about line drawing. Where do you draw the line. Do Americans find it acceptable to see gay couples going hand in hand in public? How do straight couples explain that to their kids?>> People will get used to it. For a long time it wasn't considered acceptable for a black person to be married to a white person. I'm old enough to remember the finger-pointing and whispering that would occur when people saw a mixed race couple in public. Where do you draw the line? At behavior that would be improper for anyone. I have no problem with gay people holding hands in public. I really wouldn’t want to watch them make out in public, but I wouldn’t want to watch a straight couple do that either. Well, unless the woman was Kate Hudson. I’d watch her make out with anyone. ;-)
Originally Posted By cape cod joe It's just that it's tough to explain to kids about gays NOT blacks, asians, whatever> it's a completely different issue. I am 99% sure that gays can't help being gay, but my wife, the wife of a Baptist Minister, is sure that environment has something to do with it. To hedge my bets as a parent, I want to make sure I present as much of a hetero environment as I can, UNTIL they are old enough to understand. It's like when is the right age to introduce AIDS, sex, and other educational issues to the kids. I really think the Black analogy is specious and a red herring, as I'm sure Beau and most Americans would feel.
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Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder And let me just add beau, there's no point in too much more discussion about this, since you'd have to have at least a basic understanding of the law and issues here. To say you're lacking in that regard is one of the understatements of the year. It's akin to fighting an unarmed man. I won't do it.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Why isn't a civil union type arrangment good enough?>> I actually think this is a valid question. How much different would a civil union be from a regular marriage, other than its name? From what I understand, there would be little. So what difference does it really make what its called so long as everyone is given equal rights? Better yet, let churches perform “marriage ceremonies,†and let the State issue certificates of union.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<It's impossible to tell where the stupidity stops and the ignorance begins. Obviously, everything you say here is so very wrong>> Why not tell me ( us ) where I am " so very wrong "? Just to, you know, straighten me out, the " ignorant one ". Because I guarantee you, many lurkers on here know my point is dead on correct and you are back to snarky put downs.... we all know what it means when you go to the " snarky comment " card.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Gays have had a huge victory with the acceptance of civil unions by most Americans. I think this is a win win for everyone. I know some on the right are even against civil unions, but they are willing to concede the point as long as the meaning of marriage is not changed.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe tigger--I think it comes down to the moral and religious issues. It's that simple. That's what the difference is to MOST Americans. As MOST Americans don't want to discriminate against gays for something they cannot help, most Americans don't want to take away the special union reserved for a man and woman.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe "Snarky"--- I like that Beau! I bet even the Passman is snickering over that one.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder Legal cites, beau, legal cites. Cough them up. Meanwhile, chew on this, for the umpteenth time, some samples from Loving v. Virginia: "The Equal Protection Clause requires the consideration of whether the classifications drawn by any statute constitute an arbitrary and invidious discrimination. The clear and central purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to eliminate all official state sources of invidious racial discrimination in the States." "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival."
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << Why do straight people want to get married? Whi is this so important to them? >> So then can set up a household that has children and is recognized by the state. The state wants married couples to have kids because it keeps our race going. Without children our country will no longer exist... not to mention mankind. A marriage with a MAN and a WOMAN is the BEST possible place to have this happen and it the bast possible place for a child to be raised. Not all couples want to have kids or can have kids, but the majority do. So how does gay marriage better society?
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder Substitute "sexual orientation" for "racial" and you have the inevitable upcoming Supreme Court decision.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder Here's a reply brief from a case called Ames. Enjoy. <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:8ym66U-DD68J:www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/bsa/Petitioner_Reply_Brief.doc+fundamental+right+to+marry+ames&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q =cache:8ym66U-DD68J:www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/bsa/Petitioner_Reply_Brief.doc+fundamental+right+to+marry+ames&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1</a>
