Originally Posted By jonvn "Like SD said, if the feds are setting up sting operations then it DOES make sense." Not if you deny a 65 year old the ability to buy liquor. That does not. The law simply says not under 21. It does not say you must always show id. Anyone who is obviously over 21 should not need to show ID, and to require it of people is really an indicator of how low we've sunk in our ability to think clearly. "He was like "are you STUPID? I'm THIRTY years old!". " Of course she was stupid. The drinking age is 21, not 30. People who are 30 do not look under 21. Conversely, people who are 20 and under don't look 30. Not unless they have some kind of strange aging disease, and if so, might as well give them a drink. "He was FOURTEEN" OH MY GOD HE'S GOING TO DIE IN THE GUTTER! Our hysteria in this country over these ridiculous things is ruining us.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle Wow, that's ... really ridiculous. I guess I have to stop complaining when I get carded! I'm 24 and the legal drinking age here is 18. My friends and I always gripe "do we look 17?!"
Originally Posted By Mr X **Our hysteria in this country over these ridiculous things is ruining us.** Agreed. It really is silly in America, and I do feel it leads to the binging we so often hear about. As I said, I've NEVER seen a Japanese youth drunk (plenty of adults though lol). And on that day in question, a lot of the older people were drinking heavily (myself included lol), but that 14 year old kid just had 2 beers (he mentioned not wanting to go home to his parents drunk...responsible, huh?).
Originally Posted By jonvn Europe has managed to last a few thousand years without having an age limit on drinking. Kids are fed wine at a young age. Then again, this is a nation of rejects. Most of the people in this country came here because they were failures in their original homeland. That's not exactly the best and brightest stock to build on. There are a couple of groups, like black people who were dragged here unwillingly. The description does not fit them. Jews got chased here. But for the rest? Breeding is everything.
Originally Posted By Mr X Wouldn't agree with post 24 though...not by a longshot. Because they "failed" in their original homeland, or because they failed to conform? America has always had the best and the brightest. Whether born or imported. WE invented the car. The phone. The airplane. The bomb. Nuff said. As for the Jews, damned fortunate they had someplace to run to, no?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Japan's even simpler...you can buy booze wherever and whenever you want. >>> Japan is indeed interesting when it comes to alcohol laws. Japan used to have unrestricted sales of alcohol in vending machines, which were all over the place. That has changed, and now alcohol vending machines are available only at liquor stores (and shrines!). And I can attest to the fact that the 20-year-old minimum age is not strictly enforced like it is in the US. On the other hand, drinking and driving is handled much more strictly in Japan than in the US. In Japan, it's illegal to serve someone that plans to drive even a single alcoholic beverage, and the DUI limit is 0.015%. So essentially, it's illegal to drive even after having consumed a single alcoholic beverage. But, the per-capita death rate due to DUI is about 1/10th of the US's. I think the US alcohol laws would not be nearly as strict as they are if it were not for the high fatality rate of alcohol-related car accidents. <<< At the point where they are restricting sales for 4 hours, what the heck IS the point anyway? So, you run out of beer...you wait a few hours and buy more. Duh. >>> The point is to close down bars at 2am so that they're not open all night. And I think the point of also limiting off-premise sales after 2am is so that people don't stop by the 7-11 on the way home from the bar.
Originally Posted By Mr X **now alcohol vending machines are available only at liquor stores** For clarification, these machines are OUTSIDE the liquer stores, so there is no deterrent there for a child to buy beer with their milk money if they want to.
Originally Posted By jonvn Failed. Conformity has nothing to do with it. We are fed a long story about how people came here to make a new life for themselves. And that's sort of true. But mostly it was because they needed to. The propaganda started with the Pilgrims, who supposedly came here for religious freedom. Well, really, they came here for the opposite. They came here because they were tossed out of England for demanding religious tyranny. They were not wanted. They came here and established a bizarre religious order. Just like Jonestown. We have not always had the best and brightest. Some people managed to rise above and make things, yes. But the great mass of people are bred from those who just couldn't handle things where they were. After coming here, they had their children, who now live in trailers collecting decorative knives they've bought on the Home Shopping Network. "damned fortunate they had someplace to run to" Good thing for this country, anyway. If it weren't for them, who'd run the place.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well, let's see. Statewide, alcohol can not be sold for off-premise consumption after midnight (except Sunday when it goes to 1am). And, no alcohol can be sold on Sunday morning until noon, either for on-premise or off-premise consumption - you're supposed to be in church and not buying alcohol on Sunday morning! Hard liquor can be sold for off-premise consumption only at a dedicated liquor store, and not supermarkets, and they are closed all day Sunday.<< You just described Utah's laws as well. Alcohol can certainly be harmful, but the reactions we often have as a culture are so puritanical, it gets pretty absurd. I like Japan's idea for DUI, though.
Originally Posted By Mr X **If it weren't for them, who'd run the place.** I thought that was supposed to be a secret.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< The drinking age is 21, not 30. People who are 30 do not look under 21. Conversely, people who are 20 and under don't look 30. Not unless they have some kind of strange aging disease >>> But you're missing the point. I'll fall back to one of my favorite sayings when it comes to legal issues in the US: "In most states..." In most states, the laws that regulate liquor sales do not specify any particular requirement that purchasers be "carded," whether it be in all cases or whether they "look under 30" or any other case. Nor do they specify what constitutes a valid ID, especially in terms of dealing with issues of a credible fake ID. Most states simply put the burden on the seller to not sell alcohol to anyone that's under 21 years of age and leave it to the seller to figure out how to make it happen. This typically is accomplished by a combination of a variable ID requirement along with judgment of the individual cashier or waitperson making the sale. Several things come to mind: - Of those of us that live in the US, I'm sure we've all seen signs that say "ID required for alcohol purchases for customers under the age of 25." Sometimes the stated age is 30. One perhaps slightly snotty response to being asked for ID in such a situation is to state that you're over the stated 25 or 30 age limit and therefore don't need to show ID per the posted sign. - Since about age 19, I've looked substantially older than I really am. In fact, on my 21st birthday, I went out on a mission at the stroke of midnight to purchase beer. I stood in line at the convenience store right at midnight with my beer, so that when I got carded, I could show my driver license to prove that I was a newly-minted legal purchaser. I was disappointed when the sale went through without question. Over the next 2 hours, I went from store to store making purchases. Not once was I asked for ID, even in one case where there were two police officers directly behind me in line. The fact of the matter was that I looked substantially over 21 enough that nobody even questioned the fact. If I had tried the same thing a week prior, each and every seller could have been busted for making an underage sale even though I looked just the same. - I vaguely knew the owner of a convenience store and some of his employees. One day, I go in to find that the beer coolers are all locked down even though it's in the middle of the day. The state had sent in an underage decoy who was able to make a purchase without being carded. The clerk had no reason to believe that the purchaser was underage based on their appearance. The owner was given the choice of a two-week license suspension or a multi-thousand dollar fine. In a somewhat unusual decision, the owner opted for the license suspension, as he figured he made less profit over a two-week period than the amount of the fine. The clerk responsible was lucky to not lose his job, and definitely was troubled by the incident. So, based on all of the above, I don't fault any retailer that has a "ALL alcohol customers MUST show valid ID" policy. In my opinion, any silliness associated with such a policy is a reflection on us as a society, and really has nothing to do with the particular retailer.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I thought that was supposed to be a secret." They'll never find out. Most people in this country can't be bothered to read anyway. It would take away their precious hours from watching professional wrestling.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But you're missing the point." No, I don't think so. Someone who is 65 does not look under 21, and no one under 21 looks 65 or even 35. To not be able to determine this without looking at a piece of paper screams of the base simplicity in the public. I can even see if you look 25 and under you could be carded, for someone could be 20 and look a bit over that. Maybe even stretching to 30. But that's really about it. "I don't fault any retailer that has a "ALL alcohol customers MUST show valid ID" policy" I do. Anyone who is obviously not underage should not need to present an iD. But it is true that the government in this country is out to prosecute anyone it can in any manner possible. Land of the free and all that.,,,
Originally Posted By x Pirate_Princess x One thing I've just thought of.. In most stores, there's a little sticker near the registers that says : If you were born after this date in 1989, you can't buy tobacco products. If you were born after this date in 1986, you can't buy alcohol products. How easy does it have to get for cashiers to figure out if someone is of age or not? Here in CA, if you're under 18, you have a blue stripe and a red stripe on your license or ID. If you're under 21, only a red stripe with "21 in XXXX" My sister went to the DMV the day after her 21st birthday to get a new license. So did I. So a clerk really only needs to look for the stripes. Blue & Red: No tobacco. Just red: No alcohol. Or look at the birthday, and then the sign. I took it as a compliment when I was carded. It meant she thought I looked under 30. LOL Good thing, as I'm only 27. But here's the kicker...everyone should carry identification at all times. Period. For emergency purposes. I have a license and an ID. The ID is in my "Disneyland Wallet" so I don't have to remember to take my license when we go to the park. It also has the copy of my debit card. And I agree: a 65 year old should not have needed to show ID. However, with plastic surgery, who knows how old people are these days!!
Originally Posted By Mr X **I was disappointed when the sale went through without question. Over the next 2 hours, I went from store to store making purchases. Not once was I asked for ID, even in one case where there were two police officers directly behind me in line.** And how much liquer did you end up purchasing, young man? So, though I've never actually asked your age, I have to tell you that you don't look a DAY over 60, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
Originally Posted By Mr X **Someone who is 65 does not look under 21, and no one under 21 looks 65 or even 35. To not be able to determine this without looking at a piece of paper screams of the base simplicity in the public.** While I agree with how purely stupid this really is, I can also see SuperDry's point about how retailers have to protect themselves from the stupidity to begin with. If I were a store owner, I WOULD order my employees to card everyone without exception, on penalty of termination (JOB termination, I mean lol). Why? Because in some cases a clerk may begin by letting some 30 year olds slide, and then some 25 year olds, and before you know it they aren't really carding anyone. Because that's a threat to my business, that would be how I would run things in accordance with the stupid laws. And for an employee, assuming they have a boss like me, they'd just card everyone despite logic, because they could lose their jobs if not. So, in both cases, it's not the stupidity of the individuals per se but rather an appropriate response to a government that creates these silly laws in the first place and then aggressively tries to "nail" the offenders.
Originally Posted By jonvn Somehow in some crazy manner we managed to keep underage drinking under control for 70 or so years without having to card 70 year olds.
Originally Posted By 8 ilovemickey 8 I agree Mr. X. It is the store owners right to protect themselves from any legal issues as well as there right to card you. It's simply carry your ID. Haha. As far as a 19 year old looking 35...I have seen a few. Mr. X, perhaps you could help me with this, a police officer recently told me that in an Asian country (I can't remember which one now) that if you get a DUI you lose your license for life. Is this true? I have to say it sounds like a good idea to me.
Originally Posted By Mr X **It is the store owners right to protect themselves from any legal issues as well as there right to card you. It's simply carry your ID. Haha.** Well, my point was more along the lines that they HAVE to do it to protect themselves. I agree with Jon that the whole situation IS stupid, people SHOULDN'T have to show ID unless they're obviously underaged, and so on... Don't know about that DUI thing, but I do know that in certain Asian countries drug possession carries the death penalty (also stupid).
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< And how much liquer did you end up purchasing, young man? >>> A trunkful, if I remember correctly. I simply couldn't believe what was happening. <<< So, though I've never actually asked your age, I have to tell you that you don't look a DAY over 60, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! >>> That's so comforting to know!
