Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: No, SSP, my sisters and I don't have to shut up at all. If you want to continue being a cyber bully and the moderators don't want to do anything about it, that's their problem but you don't scare us with your bullying tactics. ORWEN: Besides, just because you think something is scientifically sound doesn't make it so. You're just promoting what you choose to believe. But you're no more qualified than anybody else is to give your opinion. ORGOCH: Heck! He's less qualified! All he promotes is a bunch a lies--from gun control subjects ta sayin' Obama's the best president America ever had ta believin' it's safe ta left unproven meds git shot inta yer system. Comes across like an ol' snake oil salesman ta me!!
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Anyway, the drug companies in America, today, are so corrupt that you're taking a big risk to trust anything that comes from any of their studies. All they want is your money. They can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Then it's a good thing that vaccines have been tested in non-industry-funded, double-blind, peer reviewed studies from here to Sunday. Did you even read the link in #1? It is an analysis of 67 (67!) recent studies. From a link within that link: "The report says there is "strong evidence" that the measles vaccine is not associated with an increased risk of autism. That myth gained popularity in 1998 because of a medical study that has been retracted. Still, the myth persists. "There is a lot of misinformation out there about vaccines," says co-author Margaret Maglione, also a researcher with Rand. "With the rise of the Internet and the decline of print journalism, anyone can put anything on the Internet." Boy howdy to that last one. <Like all drugs, vaccines can cause serious side effects. But those complications are "extremely rare" and should be weighed against vaccination's enormous benefits, Maglione says.> One would think this would be obvious. We've effectively wiped out smallpox, the deadliest pathogen the world has ever known. And we did it via vaccine. (In fact, the word "vaccine" was coined because the first smallpox vaccine was created from the less-lethal-to-humans cowpox.) Countless kids in this country used to die or be crippled from such diseases as diptheria, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough (my Mom almost died from whooping cough as a toddler), and others. Until the recent vaccine scare, that pretty much didn't happen in this country any more - though it did in other countries where vaccinations were not as common. Hmmmmmmm. Now with this bogus scare causing some people to refuse to vaccinate their kids, these diseases are making a comeback right here. Double hmmmmmmmmmm. It ain't rocket science to understand the science, if you will. We've isolated the viruses and bacteria. We know what they do and how they spread. We know how the diseases virtually disappeared with widespread vaccinations, and have made a comeback as some people refuse. And the autism link has been studied exhaustively and found not to be there. The increase in autism cases is mostly due to increased diagnosis of all the disorders on the autism spectrum, not an increase in cases per se. There was a girl in my grade school class who I'm sure today would be diagnosed as autistic or with Asperger's at least. But at the time, you just didn't hear the terms. She could function and she could learn, but she just didn't want to be talked to, didn't want to be touched, etc. I'm all for testing kids (if possible - I'd have to learn more) to see if vaccines might cause a problem with them specifically, and certainly for finding an alternative to mercury as a preservative. And few people are as skeptical of drug companies in most circumstances as I am. But you can't leap from there to saying there are two "equal sides" of this debate. (Which I don't think skinnerbox is doing, but others are.) It's as freaking nuts to deny your kids vaccines against these awful diseases based on junk science as it is to deny climate change or evolution.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Anyway, the drug companies in America, today, are so corrupt that you're taking a big risk to trust anything that comes from any of their studies. All they want is your money. They can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything." So, guy who pretends to be a witch, what you're saying is you're in favor of doing something that will either most certainly kill children or make them severely ill or harmed. There's no other way to read your garbage.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>They can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything.<< That must be why so many 19th century diary entries say, "My beloved child died today of diphtheria, but thank the good Lord she didn't have autism."
Originally Posted By Mr X ***unproven meds*** What a ridiculous claim. ***All they want is your money. They can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything*** This assumes that all the doctors in the world are either a) complicit or b) stupid Just like the global warming 'debate', even the most ardent conspiracy theorist would have a hard time trying to claim either one for such a vast body of highly educated, morally neutral participants.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>No, SSP, my sisters and I don't have to shut up at all.<< You can yammer all you want. You just won't be taken seriously.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>>>They can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything.<< That must be why so many 19th century diary entries say, "My beloved child died today of diphtheria, but thank the good Lord she didn't have autism." Agreed. One of the reasons people used to have so many kids is because they would drop dead like flies from diseases that vaccines have consigned to the history books. People today forget how scientists like Pasteur, Sabin and Salk were considered heroes back in their day. People were terrified of epidemics, which could enter your home and take half your family to the grave. It amazes me that people actually want to go back to that. I've never understood people who distrust modern medicine, which has raised life expectancy to record highs (a hundred years ago you were lucky if you made it to 50). Or people who insist that the Earth is flat or that that global warming is a scam. I'm sorry to say that my late mother was one of those people. She had a profound distrust of doctors and believed that they were all incompetent idiots who would kill her given the chance. In the end, she died of emphysema, which she inflicted upon herself.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck The mathematics alone are indisputable. To deny a child protection from a hideous disease, based on such shoddy "evidence" is criminal. Ignorance is no excuse. The benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks, real or imagined, period.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Just consider the following: Here is a list of some of the damaging ingredients in the vaccines on the market today: MSG, antifreeze, phenol (used as a disinfectant), formaldehyde (cancer causing and used to embalm), aluminum (associated with alzheimer’s disease and seizures), glycerin (toxic to the kidney, liver, can cause lung damage, gastrointestinal damage and death), lead, cadmium, sulfates, yeast proteins, antibiotics, acetone (used in nail polish remover), neomycin and streptomycin. And the ingredient making the press is thimerosol (more toxic than mercury, a preservative still used in many vaccines, not easily eliminated, can cause severe neurological damage as well as other life threatening autoimmune disease). These vaccines are grown and strained through animal or human tissue, like monkey and dog kidney tissue, chick embryo, calf serum, human diploid cells (the dissected organs of aborted fetuses), pig blood, horse blood and rabbit brain. Can you imagine injecting this stuff directly into your child’s blood? At least if you ate these ingredients, your body would have a chance to detoxify and eliminate them before any permanent damage could be done. But, to inject them right into the blood is the most damaging and lethal approach imaginable. How could anyone possibly think injection of such a cocktail of poison could in any way help preserve and enhance your child’s health? - See more at: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/six-reasons-to-say-no-to-vaccination/#sthash.ws4AuUJy.dpuf">http://www.thehealthyhomeecono...UJy.dpuf</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Can you imagine injecting this stuff directly into your child’s blood?<< Yes, and I have, and I would do it again. Actually, my son is receiving his final shot for the HPV vaccine in just a couple of weeks, so there you go. This is why the luxury of ignorance is such a dangerous thing. People read that list and it sounds scary and impressive, but none of those things are harmful in the doses given. This has been looked at a million different ways, and, for the umpteenth time, vaccines. Are. Not. Dangerous. Or. Harmful. To. Children.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well at least you acknowledge some of the facts that have been presented. The choices you make beyond that are up to you. As I said before, it all boils down to whom you choose to have the most confidence in. For me, my confidence lies elsewhere and not in vaccines.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < How could anyone possibly think injection of such a cocktail of poison could in any way help preserve and enhance your child’s health?> Um... because the practice of vaccinations has virtually eliminated a whole host of diseases that used to take the lives of millions, everywhere it is practiced. And when it stops being practiced, those diseases make a comeback.
Originally Posted By ecdc Right. And, as usual when someone is wrong about a scientific fact, they immediately retreat to "well you have your opinion and your life, and I have mine." Except it doesn't work like that here. There are legitimately people who can't get vaccinated, and we need to keep herd immunity above 90% in order to protect those people and eliminate the disease. Just shrugging and saying, "Hey, we all have our own opinions" doesn't cut it this time. It's harmful and dangerous. You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
Originally Posted By doombuggy so what if there are harmful ingredients in vaccines have you seen what's in our food? This is a matter of public health and safety so what if your child may develop a disorder at least they won't be crippled and have to live their life in a wheelchair. Seriously look up old film and photos of what the country was like during the polio epidemic.have you never heard of an iron lung? People had to livee in these machines because of polio.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "It's harmful and dangerous. You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts." Right. When your opinions damage public health.....I have no patience for the crazy.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>How could anyone possibly think injection of such a cocktail of poison could in any way help preserve and enhance your child’s health?<< Because science.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>For me, my confidence lies elsewhere and not in vaccines.<< <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bXjRNMvbV08/UI9xPDBBSZI/AAAAAAAAASc/MMBdY4M7wIk/s1600/vitameatavegamin.jpg">http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bXjR...amin.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "Besides, just because you think something is scientifically sound doesn't make it so. You're just promoting what you choose to believe." It isn't about believing - it's about understanding the scientific method and how consensus is achieved. "Anyway, the drug companies in America, today, are so corrupt that you're taking a big risk to trust anything that comes from any of their studies." These aren't drug company studies, but independent studies performed around the world by research groups, universities, graduate programs, etc.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "As I said before, it all boils down to whom you choose to have the most confidence in." No, it doesn't. You can choose to believe that the earth is flat, or that disease is caused by an imbalance in the humors, or that stone age mythology describes the origins of the world. You can be 100% confident in those beliefs. But you can only have that confidence if you reject the evidence presented by the observable, testable, measurable world. It isn't a matter of who you choose to have confidence in. It is a matter of rejecting objective reality and refusing to understand the methods and tools that are designed to remove cultural, social and political biases from the equation.
