Originally Posted By ecdc >>skinner box can you tell me someone you listen too who is 100% correct ?<< False scenario. I can equate Walter Cronkite with Kevin Trudeau and say "Well no one is always right!" But we can evaluate their respective statements and come to a reasonable conclusion that Walter Cronkite was a public servant who did his best to report information accurately and fairly (but not at the expense of the facts) while Kevin Trudeau is a shameless self-promoter more interested in making money at the expense of naive people seeking quick answers. Sure, a Kevin Trudeau fan can selectively evaluate the data and swear up and down he's a smart guy and a great public servant, but it's just not true. At least not here in reality, where the sky is blue and gravity is real.
Originally Posted By Donny OK ecdc you watch the next Glenn Beck and tell me the me all the incorrect statements he makes. His next show is on Nov.17
Originally Posted By Dabob2 A charlatan has to say plenty of true things along with the false ones, or no one would ever believe him. That's pretty much the job description. Neck says enough that's true (or at least that aren't lies, despite the insanely heated rhetoric) to make the lies plausible for anyone not inclined to look deeper. So it's entirely possible any given show won't contain flat out falsehoods. Search the net, though, and you'll find plenty. This Soros thing is just one example. I don't know about you, but if it's shown that a person lies multiple times without remorse, that person becomes an undeniable source in my book. Beck surpassed that threshold long ago.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I don't know about you, but if it's shown that a person lies multiple times without remorse, that person becomes an undeniable source in my book. Beck surpassed that threshold long ago.>> Ditto. Beck is an ethically challenged power monger. He loves being in the spotlight, he loves the attention, he loves the millions he rakes in every year. And if innocent people like the employees at the Tides Foundation or the ACLU someday get murdered by his psychotic followers, he'll never shed one tear for them, or take responsibility for the inflammatory rhetoric he spews that initiates such violence. The only tears Beck is capable of shedding for anyone but himself are crocodile in nature.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Can't I listen to Glenn Beck and be an OK person ?<< I don't think so. Any more than you can smoke crack and be an OK person. Turn him off, permanently. The withdrawal symptoms will be awful for a week or two, but you'll come out a much better person.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Can't I listen to Glenn Beck and be an OK person ?<< This deserves more of a response than #26, and I don't think I expressed myself clearly anyway. My answer is, indeed, no. But when I say that, I'm not meaning "OK" in the way you meant it. I am absolutely certain that you want, in your heart of hearts, to be a good person. You want what's best for your fellow man, your country, your city/town/whatever, your family, and possibly even us jerks on the internet who throw verbal spitballs at you. You want this country to live up to the ideals you were taught that it stood for. You want life to be fair, you want hard work and perseverance to be rewarded, and laziness to be discouraged. You want people to enjoy the fruits of their labor, and have the maximum possible control over them. Am I wrong about any of this, because I hope not, and I don't think I am. Guess what? I WANT ALL THIS STUFF TOO! I think the differences between you and me boil down to the following: (1) I question EVERYTHING. There is no one in the media who I trust 100%. Not even Jon Stewart. (I have a car mechanic I trust 100%, but he's not in the media.) (2) I used to be in the media myself. I majored in communications. I took courses in journalism, including a very rigorous one, taught by a local anchor guy, on gathering information in the field. I WORKED FOR A FOX STATION! I went into the break room one morning and found Brit Hume standing there making coffee. I know how this stuff works, and how it doesn't (both news reporting and coffee makers). I know when a newscaster is sincerely trying to report the news as unbiased and accurately as he is capable, and I know when he's blowing smoke up your caboose. (3) I realize that school curricula when I was growing up (and even moreso before that) were deliberately designed to instill a certain mindset in regards to this country and its history, and often did so by "embellishing" the truth a great deal. I sang songs about what a great guy Columbus was. And learned how evil the British overlords were to the American colonists. I was taught that Ben Franklin was a saint on Earth, that every man, woman and child in the Soviet Union wanted to kill me, that we were mean to the Indians but that was all over with, that we single-handedly defeated the Germans in both World Wars, and that any of us could grow up to be President. Then I grew up and found out that, while these things weren't *entirely* untrue, they were a whole lot more ... complicated ... than that. And pretty much everything else in life was the same way. (4) My dad's a pastor. So I know all about how that stuff works too. In short, I'm a skeptic. I want to think things through, and to do that, I need information. When you're trying to decide something, the worst thing you can do is decide it based on incorrect information. And Glenn Beck is incorrect information personified. I see the techniques that the media uses to make you believe stupid stuff. They are scientifically proven techniques. They work a charm. They showed them to us in class. (Same major as Sarah Palin, by the way.) They used them during WWII to make us hate, and I mean really HATE, everything Japanese. They use them to make us crave Chicken McNuggets even though they're kind of gross. They used them to get me to vote for Jerry Brown and to get you to vote for, well, I don't know who, but I'm probably not a fan. They use them to promote Tangled, and I'm on other threads talking about ways I think they could use them a little better. And it drives me BANANAS when I see how well they work. Because there's nothing I can do about it except write rants like this on the internets. Donny, you're brainwashed. All those things I said about you up there, all those things you want for yourself, your family, etc. ... you and they and I are likely to lose most of them in our lifetimes, because you and millions like you are no longer making good decisions. BECAUSE THEY'RE BASED ON WRONG INFORMATION. FROM PEOPLE LIKE GLENN BECK. People without consciences. People who have not the slightest qualm about hitting you with every unethical psychological whammy they know of, to make you believe certain things and behave certain ways. They've got you, Donny. You're theirs. There's nothing I can do to convince you of this. I can send you to links, but you've been taught to believe that anything that contradicts the worldview you've been fed is not to be trusted. I can try to reason with you, but you've already been pre-programmed with ways to short-circuit reasoning, through emotional trigger words like "socialist" and "liberal" and "Muslim" and (on the other side) "liberty" and "patriots" and "we the people." They're just words, Donny. But in the wrong hands, presented in the right ways, they can really mess up your discernment. Even your innermost thoughts. So yeah, I've written you off. I have to. No sense in doing otherwise. You can't deprogram a cult member over the internet. It's dang near impossible in person. If I had my way, I WOULD ban Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc. from the airwaves, the internet, and anywhere else they can obtain a mass audience - a clear violation of freedom of speech, but quite possibly the only thing that can save this country now. Won't happen, of course, but I think a good portion of those millions who now consider themselves Patriotic Conservatives would suddenly recognize how badly and how effectively they've been tricked. Crack addicts will get better if there's no more crack. Cult members will never get better until you get them away from the cult. So that's what I mean when I say you can't be an OK person and listen to Glenn Beck. His show, and the other swill that Fox News spills out on this country, are DESIGNED to make you an un-OK person. To make you take actions and cast votes that are totally AGAINST everything you think you're voting FOR. Glenn Beck is a liar. All the time. He is part of an organization of liars who are literally manipulating your mind and making you believe stuff that just ain't true. And you can't make good decisions based on bad information. You can be skeptical and still be conservative. There are still such people out there. The brainwashers are using the emotionally loaded term "RINO" to make you hate them and keep you away from their ideas. A good first step might be to look into what they have to say. They don't bite. Some of them are here: <a href="http://www.frumforum.com" target="_blank">http://www.frumforum.com</a> I disagree with 2/3 of the stuff on that site, but at least it isn't based on a pack of lies. So there you go, Donny. Laid on the line. The straight, unvarnished truth as I see it. Wasted words, no doubt, but at least now you know where I'm coming from.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***They used them during WWII to make us hate, and I mean really HATE, everything Japanese*** And boy did it last! My sweet as pie Grandma, when I was leaving for Japan for the first time in 1998(!), pulled me aside and said to me "Never forget Pearl Harbor! And stay away from those Ginza girls (huh?)". ***They use them to make us crave Chicken McNuggets even though they're kind of gross*** Back off the Nuggets, Pal. I LIKE EM! I remember my first McNugget commercial, in fact! <a href="http://tinyurl.com/292b9fd" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/292b9fd</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Great post, mawnck. And in mine, of course, I meant "unreliable source.". Dang iPhone and its auto "correction."
Originally Posted By Donny mawnck In reading your statement to me how I am brainwashed by Glenn Beck and Fox news I notice you say nothing of how MSNBC and President Obama has led us astray.You think Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz don't lie to the viewers or that President Obama doesn't make back room deals with the unions and democratic leaning states to pass Obama care at the expense of the tax payer ?The big difference between you and I is that I know both sides do it and I am skeptical of both but you want to make it all about Glenn Beck and Fox News.I worked for NBC (not an affiliate but NBC )and saw first hand how they distort the truth to get you to watch.In short when you make a comment like "Glenn Beck is a liar. All the time" you make it to easy to prove you wrong and know how brainwashed you are.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Donny, after writing that response, you either didn't read it all, are thoroughly incapable of understanding what you've read (i.e. missed the point ENTIRELY), or you're simply lying about it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In reading your statement to me how I am brainwashed by Glenn Beck and Fox news I notice you say nothing of how MSNBC and President Obama has led us astray*** Reading this over and over again is somewhat hypnotic...I can really *feel* the mantra...seriously. Try it, guys. It's interesting! Just read it over and over again... "led us astray" is a REALLY weird way to put things, but you claim this on TWO very different planes...first, MSNBC (yes, FOX lite for the left with some caveats), but then the President? Do you think he's in collusion with this leftist cable network that garners relatively low ratings? If so, who do you think they're trying to influence? And do you think that low rated network "led us astray"? How, exactly? Oh, forget it. This is just too weird. I feel like I'm in the middle of a cult deprograming or something. Donny, you want to believe the President "led you astray"...go ahead and believe it. You want to believe that the uber-powerful and often watched MSNBC "led you astray"? More power to ya. I think you are parroting what you've heard. But obviously I'm just leading you astray. Good luck with that.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>saw first hand how they (NBC) distort the truth to get you to watch.<< I'm listening. Seriously. I'd like to hear your story here.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox First off, post #27 is brilliant. Thanks, mawnck, for taking the time to write it all. I'd like to add my two cents regarding the psychology of persuasion. I have a similar degree to mawnck's (speech communication), and took a similar curriculum regarding argumentation and persuasion and the psychological science that drives it. Powerful stuff. Did you know, Donny, that it's much easier to convert someone from one extreme point of view to the opposite end of the spectrum, than it is to get someone who's apathetic to change their viewpoint? This is why the GOP doesn't waste any money on non-voters. They're focusing all of their fundraising dollars on winning moderate voters, both Republican and Democrat, because they're NOT apathetic. They vote. They care. But folks who can't be bothered to vote simply tune out the message and stay home. Problem is, the majority of non-voters are Democrats. This is why the Dems lost the House, and came close to losing the Senate. (They would have lost the Senate had the three dumb bunnies from Alaska, Delaware and Nevada not been so crazy.) There are far fewer Republican non-voters as a percentage. The DNC has tried to get their message across, but apathetic voters simply won't listen. Those non-voters do not favor or believe what Beck and Rush and Fox News babble about each day, but they won't participate in the voting process and make their voices heard. They simply refuse to believe that their vote would actually make a difference in their lives. They're hopelessly apathetic to a fault. And Beck and Rush and Fox News count on that large apathetic non-voting Democrat base to push their agenda on everyone else who does vote. mawnck is correct. Folks who listen to Beck and Rush and Fox News believe the manipulation that's going on in front of them. They refuse to use the internet or the library and fact check the information being told to them. It's simply easier to accept their info as factual. They are lazy. You are lazy, Donny. That's your biggest fault. You're too lazy to fact check their statements. <<I notice you say nothing of how MSNBC and President Obama has led us astray.>> Obama and the Dems have done plenty of good things during these first two years. We have not been "led astray" as you put it. Go ahead, Donny. Name at least three good things that Obama and the Dems have done so far. I'll help you get started: Federal income taxes for the middle class have gone DOWN, not up. More than 95% of Americans got a tax break this year. <<You think Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz don't lie to the viewers...>> No I do not. They occasionally make mistakes with their info, and issue corrections and apologies the moment they learn about those errors. They do not deliberately lie to their viewers. Everything they talk about is verifiable through fact checking. And yes, I take the time to do fact checking through independent non-partisan sources about their stories. Do you, Donny, take the time to do fact checking through independent non-partisan sources regarding what Beck tells you? <<... or that President Obama doesn't make back room deals with the unions...>> Donny... what percentage of the private business sector is unionized? Answer: 7 percent. Only 7 percent of private businesses are unionized. Why would Obama waste his time making "back room deals" with only 7 percent of the labor force? <<... and democratic leaning states to pass Obama care at the expense of the tax payer ?>> "At the expense of the tax payer" assumes that Obamacare will COST the taxpayers money instead of SAVE the taxpayers money. Prove it, Donny. Show me the independent non-partisan source that proves Obamacare will cost us more money. The Office of Management and Budget, a non-partisan organization, has stated that it will save over a trillion during the first 10 years. But all of the pundits on the right, like Beck and Rush and Fox News, refuse to report OMB's figure and only site health insurance industry "experts" about what the cost will be. Why would you trust the for-profit health insurance industry about what Obamacare will cost the taxpayer? Seriously... why would you trust anything they say about any bill or program designed to slow down their ever-increasing profit margins? They will lie about those figures to save their profits, Donny. And the for-profit health insurance industry has paid out hundreds of millions in campaign dollars to blue dog Dems and conservative Republicans who agree to spew those lies and promise to revoke Obamacare once in office. And Beck and Rush and Fox News work to serve those businesses and politicians pushing this agenda. <<The big difference between you and I is that I know both sides do it and I am skeptical of both but you want to make it all about Glenn Beck and Fox News.>> Both sides do not do it. If Rachel and Ed and Keith and Lawrence and Chris tell lies, I want you to prove it. Post some of their lies that you can back up with facts from independent non-partisan sources. Several of us here on WE have posted plenty of lies from Beck and backed it up with independent, non-partisan facts. You have yet to post lies from the MSNBC on air personalities that you could back up with independent, non-partisan facts. And until you can PROVE what you're claiming in post 30, there's no point dealing with you any longer. Put up or shut up, Donny. The ball is in your court.
Originally Posted By DAR Let's put it this way if both Beck and Soros were sucked into some vortex and went away forever, that'd be fine with me.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Again with the false equivalence? Beck and Soros are not equivalent. <You think Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz don't lie to the viewers> As SB said, how about some concrete examples? And "opinions that don't agree with mine" do not constitute "lies." I'm talking verifiable lies, deliberately told, that were not corrected later. Fox and MSNBC are only similar in that each has decided to appeal to an ideological demographic (and MSNBC only in its primetime hours, really). But Fox News lies with depressing frequency, and more or less constantly does the "not technically lying, but deliberately misleading" crap like "Is Obama a Muslim? There's controversy about that..." as though there were two equal positions on that and "you decide" (after we lead you towards the decision we want).
Originally Posted By mele <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/19/stewart-beck-impression-v_n_785888.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...888.html</a> Oh, Jon Stewart, how I love thee.
Originally Posted By DAR >>skinner box can you tell me someone you listen too who is 100% correct ?<< Yes <<<<<this guy!!!!
