Originally Posted By utahjosh It goes both ways, ecdc. I don't agree with your assessment in post 39, but in the spirit of your assessment I present your words, slightly modified: "But people like paint a picture that if you're not in their tiny extremist left corner, then you're a hatemonger. You're an Bush lap-dog. You're a victim of conservative talk radio. It turns reality on its head - it takes the mainstream and makes it extreme, and it presents the extreme as normal and reasonable - like calling Bush a terrorist. It creates an alternate reality that too many Americans live in. Then when they open their mouths to speak about politics, the rest of us just drop our jaws in shock that someone could be so ignorant and uninformed. This is what we have to thank people like Michael Moore, John Stewart, David Letterman, Cobert, and the major networks for."
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Except that Stewart, Letterman, Colbert, and the major networks don't do that. Otherwise, you have a point.
Originally Posted By donnyaz Can someone show me where Glen Beck says the word "concentration camps" please show me this in the videos he does not say anything like that.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It goes both ways, ecdc.<< No, it doesn't. The moral equivalency argument has been debunked time and time again on these boards. Yet people just keep repeating it ad nauseum - it's all the same, doncha know! Sorry. There's a HUGE difference between NBC and Sean Hannity, Jon Stewart and Glenn Beck. To say otherwise is intellectually lazy.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <No, it doesn't. The moral equivalency argument has been debunked time and time again on these boards.> It hasn't been debunked. It's just a bunch of liberals on these boards agreeing with you. Glenn Beck and Jon Stewart are not the same type of entertainers, but the effect on the listeners in persuading to believe liberal vs. conservative is the same
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'm sorry, but that's not so. Stewart is an entertainer performing AS an entertainer. He's silly as often as he's serious. Beck poses as a serious news journalist, so (some) people think they're getting the "truth" from him.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I agree that Stewart and Colbert are entertainers performing as entertainers. Glen Beck is a radio/tv guy who does both satire (often) and real-issue discussions. His radio show has funny bits all the time. And I stand by that both are influencing their audience to their points of view equally.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>His radio show has funny bits all the time. << Some of which are unintentional. I'm not sure he recognizes the difference all the time.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <And I stand by that both are influencing their audience to their points of view equally.> Stand all you like, I just don't think it stands up to the slightest scrutiny. First of all, "equally influencing their audience" is impossible to gauge. But what's not impossible to gauge is how they position themselves. Stewart never says his comedy pieces are the "truth" or that he's giving his audiences that. Beck does. He may do comedy sometimes, but his general persona is that of a newsman who is presenting the real world. That's how he presents himself and that's how he wants his audience to take him (and much of it does). That is inherently unequal to someone who is presenting a comedy show.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Not true. Most of Beck's comedy is presented as such. Ever hear his Friday Moron Trivia? The song parodies? The commercial parodies? The Stu-is-at-someplace skits? NBeck does not present himself as a news anchor at all. He clearly does a lot of comedy in addition to his honest discussions of real issues.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo I too was an AF family, donnyaz. We were stationed a Travis AFB for several years. I was preparing for OTS when the doctors disqualified due to a football injury which shattered my knee several years ago. But my ex-wife served three tours in the desert. I watched her deploy and return every time with a full heart each way. I know what it means to be patriotic. But Beck is a gimmick. He wears is patriotism on his sleeve to compensate and cover for his crazy ideas. Like Hannity and so many of these clowns, they drape themselves in the flag to shield themselves from criticism. Sure he loves the country, but no more than Blitzer, Shep Smith, O’Reilly, *gasp* Olbermann, or any other talking head pundit. Yet, they do not wear it on their sleeves like Beck and Hannity do. That is why they are so mockable, and is why I applaud Shep Smith for calling the shtick out.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Stewart never says his comedy pieces are the "truth" or that he's giving his audiences that. Beck does. He may do comedy sometimes, but his general persona is that of a newsman who is presenting the real world.>> And Stewart said as much in his altercation with Cramer. Stewart remarked that he was a snake-oil salesman who sold himself as such. Cramer, however, billed himself as a beacon of truth wisdom. I think the same applies to Stewart v. Beck in this case as well.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Beck's comedy is clear. His real-issue talk is clear, as well. He claims to do both.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Not true. Most of Beck's comedy is presented as such. Ever hear his Friday Moron Trivia? The song parodies? The commercial parodies? The Stu-is-at-someplace skits> I've heard some of it (though I'm a little concerned how much you seem to have heard - are you actually a fan of this bozo?) But what I said was true. Despite the comedy bits, he presents himself as a serious newsman. Stewart does not. It's stretching credulity a bit to say Beck presents himself equally as comedian and serious newsman; but what's clear is that Stewart does not present himself as serious newsman at all. Thus the inherent apple and orange here.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I am a fan of Glenn Beck. I listen about 15 min on my drive home some days if the sports radio guys are not interesting. I catch his top stories on his website sometimes. < It's stretching credulity a bit to say Beck presents himself equally as comedian and serious newsman> "Serious newsman" is not what Glenn claims to be. He claims to be a "thinker" who'll discuss issues in our country. And he clearly separates his comedy from his real-issue talk. I'm not stupid - anyone can see that Colbert and Stewart are comedians first and foremost, and Glen Beck is not. However, I stand by my assertion that viewers of the Daily Show and The Colbert Report are influenced to their way of thinking just as much as Beck influences his listeners.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 How can you possibly gauge if their influence is equal (as you said earlier)? It would seem axiomatic that as different types of personages, their influences would be different. How can you claim their influence is "equal" based on anything other than gut feeling, i.e. your own bias?
Originally Posted By utahjosh I can't prove anything of the sort. It's my "gut feeling." It's my observation of the audiences of the shows. It's the common sense of people becoming like-minded with those they spend time with.
Originally Posted By donnyaz tiggertoo you dont know if Becks tearing up is fake.Thats just a fact that you dont have.
Originally Posted By donnyaz tiggertoo just embrace the idea that you may not like Beck but that doesnt make him a faker
