Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Maybe before you jump to conclusions you should find out how Buicks are from someone who drives one......MPierce, how do you like your Buick?(;0)) >> Great shot. I think you nailed the target! ~Pierce is so old he really remembers the Alamo!~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Oh come on now, how else would they have found out that a common guest gripe with buffets is that the prime rib was taking up too much room on the plate, and that something should be done about it?>> Wow! I never thought of things like that. Who will protect us from quality eating in the future? ~I miss Dieter~
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<"(no 16 year old is gonna hotrod around in a Buick)">> Two words: Grand National
Originally Posted By jkayjs If someone can point out much of anything GM has done of late that makes good buisness sense(other than talk our lame duck congress into giving them an obscene amt of our money)I'm all ears. Regardless of the current economic climate sponsorship of TT is good advertising. I'm sure more than one person's bought a GM product in part due to their experience with the post-show area. It's tough to put a price tag on the hands-on element alone. As much as my kids enjoyed TT when they were tweeners it was always the actual cars we couldn't get them away from. So if your kids are spending time in the area so are the parents. Sort of a captive audience with nothing to see or hear but one GIANT GM commercial. Of course this makes sense & we all know that common sense isn't part of the corp buisness model anymore. BTW our son's first car was also an ancient Buick. It was turkey-turd tan, got 12ml/gal & was massive(his friends affectionally named it The Boat & him The Skipper). I think we paid $200 for it from a couple that were entering a nursing home(no kidding). Oh & for whoever said it kills a fellows love life. Well when was the last time you looked @ how big the backseats are in one of those old Buicks. We worried many an evening & had many a "what not to do" talks with our son esp after the acquisition of The Boat.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...other than talk our lame duck congress into giving them an obscene amt of our money...< Just for the record, I need to point out that "lame duck" refers to a congress that's on its way out during the last days of a sesson. Now, if you wanna call 'em lame, that's fine by me!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << If someone can point out much of anything GM has done of late that makes good buisness sense >> I know it's en vogue to criticize Detroit business decisions, but there really is no way for any of these auto companies to win in the current environment. And the variables that have contributed to the disastrous conditions at the Big 3 are not linked at all to their business decisions. Sales are off by about 40% due to the credit crisis. Even Toyota's sales are off by over 30%. There is no company out there, well run or poorly run, that can survive in an enviroment where they precipitously lose over a third of their customers in the span of a year. That's why Toyota and Honda are asking Japan to bail them out, too.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Dan I stand corrected but you did get my sentiment. I'm fully aware of what has the #'s down right now. I do not agree that it is not linked to their business decisions. Every decision made for many years has brought us to where we are. Bad loans, buying corp jets instead of developing a more effcient engine,not making folks(corporate & private citizens alike)responsible for their actions, politicians that care more about getting elected/re-elected than the folks they're suppose to represent are only a few of the things that have landed us here. Everything effects everything else(if you don't believe me watch "It's a Wonderful Life"). So long term bad buisness decisions are certainly a part & parcel of the current situation. To say otherwise is like saying the GM of the a football team isn't responsible for the team not making the playoffs this year because this years team stinks. Never mind it was the GM that had a hand in hiring the coach & players which lead to this current team that stinks. I do have to say this may be the first time I've ever been accused of being "en vogue" something I'm sure my mother would have been delighted I be more of. I'm not looking for a fight & I truely appreciate differing views. Actually I'm supposed to be studing & am finding every excuse not too. So there you are.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer Their 3.6L DI is pretty darn fuel efficient and produces V8 levels of power... Lexus took a couple of decades more then GM to bring up HUD...
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer GM had military grade night vision in Caddies for awhile, discontinued due to lack of consumer demand. Sometimes its also the buying public. I would love for my CUV to have Nightvision over Push button start.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Never mind it was the GM that had a hand in hiring the coach & players which lead to this current team that stinks. >> The current team had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 40% of all new car purchases in previous years were paid for in some way with home equity. Now that home equity is evaporated, sales are down 40%. What management decision could possibly have accounted for 40% of your sales disappearing in a year's time? There is no mix of products or other business decision that is going to get that 40% of sales back. It has almost nothing to do with what is on the dealership lots right now. The only decision made by the Big 3 that was detrimental in this whole episode was the over-reliance on SUVs in the product mix. They are the difference between the 40% decline in sales at GM vs. the 30% decline in sales at Toyota. Toyota can't survive in its current state with a 30% decline in sales either.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Toyota can't survive in its current state with a 30% decline in sales either.>> The only difference was that Toyota had a bigger war chest to begin with. But you are quite right that under the current scenario Toyota (and Honda) cannot survive either. I suppose that if GM just keeled over and died that Toyota might pick up enough business to profitable again. Did anyone see the TopGear episode when they drove a Corvette, Cadillac CTS-V and a Dodge Challenger (or was it a Charger) from SF to Bonneville. They were very impressed with the Corvette and Caddie. Not so much with the Dodge, even though it had a Hemi(tm).
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Two words: Grand National << I completely forgot about the '87 Regal. That car was fast!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << The only difference was that Toyota had a bigger war chest to begin with. >> Not entirely true. Toyota's war chest is bigger now because their decline started later. GM's started when the floor fell out from SUV sales about 2 years ago. GM had more cash to begin with, but has been bleeding longer.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 GM has been horribly run for decades ... so the fact it is an industry problem means little to me. This is a company that somehow managed to lose $85 million a day ... This is a company that didn't even try to build a better product to compete with Japan and Germany's automakers until it was already a dying hulk. ... This is a company that felt creating/selling Hummers was smart from financial and energy standpoints. ... This was a company that was constantly at odds with its unions. This is a company that should cease to exist. ~No tax $$$ for GM!~
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << This is a company that should cease to exist. >> I don't think you are really prepared to live with the consequences of that event. The trickle down effects of GM "ceasing to exist" would be enormous and fundamentally change the standard of living for large swaths of this country overnight.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^There's a lot of people who would love to see GM , its employees and suppliers get their "just desserts". But if that happens suddenly there will definitely be a big impact on the economy as a whole. It won't be pretty.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***WOW....you really don't like TT do you. I'm not a big fan either. I think I road it a total of 3 times, and one of those I had to walk off it*** Good lord, how'd you accomplish THAT? I always figured you had to wait til the end of the ride!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<"(no 16 year old is gonna hotrod around in a Buick)">> Two words: Grand National and they neutered that in a hurry
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer Well as sad as it is I admit the Enclave is much more of a looker then my CUV... Sad isn't it? Buick is an appliance for old people, Toyota is an appliance period. I thought I'd get more soul with a carbased CUV then my tucky SUV. Oops. Maybe next time It'll be a Flex or CX-9... See the thing I hate is how the suits don't always see things common sense, I find business sense is usually not indicative of the right long term decision or the morally correct decision.
Originally Posted By itsme Its a fact that if you look into the real world the foreign cars are made better thing is a myth driven by people who read consumer reports and don't really know about cars. Kinda strange how you can you get a appointment sooner at most American car dealers then the foreign ones for problems with the auto not just for routine service.
