Originally Posted By trailsend Oh, I have to say just a bit more. This topic is always a hottie, and I read what so many have to say. Why do I believe? It's very simple. Forgiveness ~ no more, no less If you really want to know Him, seek Him in your own private way/time/place. Just simply tell Him you want to know Him. Give Him a chance and sincerely mean it. Talk to Him, allow your spirit to be open and let Him speak to you. You don't have to earn this. It is freely given. Just give Him a chance. Seek Him on your own. He will find you because He loves you. Thank you and I'm through. Love, TrailsEnd
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>If you really want to know Him, seek Him in your own private way/time/place. Just simply tell Him you want to know Him. Give Him a chance and sincerely mean it.<<< The problem is that you cannot fake sincerity, if you don't already feel it you cannot get it.
Originally Posted By trailsend >>>>The problem is that you cannot fake sincerity, if you don't already feel it you cannot get it.<<<<<< Yes you can. You can come as you are with Jesus. It makes no difference what you've done, how you feel, where you are, whatever, He meets you there. Just say, "Jesus, I feel like I'm faking but I really don't want to fake it. I want to know more about You. I need to find You. Will you reveal Yourself to me?"
Originally Posted By mele Unfortunately, some people do sincerely ask God into their hearts but still feel nothing.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb God: Yes Religion: No Finding a good church and attending if you want: Yes THE Church, robbing you of free will: No Jesus, living a sinless life and sacrificing that life so we can live eternally: Yes!
Originally Posted By alexbook >>>>>>The problem is that you cannot fake sincerity, if you don't already feel it you cannot get it.<<<<<< Yes you can. You can come as you are with Jesus. It makes no difference what you've done, how you feel, where you are, whatever, He meets you there. Just say, "Jesus, I feel like I'm faking but I really don't want to fake it. I want to know more about You. I need to find You. Will you reveal Yourself to me?"<< What happens if you do that and nothing happens?
Originally Posted By pecos bill I have no belief in any religion, none! I am, however, open to the infinite amount of possibility that is beyond my powers of comprehension. I have no desire to spend an eternity with a deity that would send a man to eternal torture for the henious crime of disbelief, even if he has led a life of kindness and morality. A quote... Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. -Isaac Asimov One more... When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a bicycle. Then I realized that the lord doesn't work that way. So I stole one and asked him to forgive me. -Emo Philips
Originally Posted By mele <<Free will, not everyone was meant to believe.>> Wow. So, God chooses to ignore a truly sincere person who is crying out to believe yet hears nothing? That's either very, very cruel or (vastly more likely) a convincing argument against the reality of God.
Originally Posted By BoyStory ^^^ mele, that belief held by some Christians is called "pre-destination". <---This Christian does NOT believe in pre-destination as God's Word says it is His will that NONE should parish , but ALL should have everlasting life. Why would he tell us to come to Him and He will give us peace and then reject a cry from his own child? I've personally been angered at that same theory b/c ITA that would be a lovely argument that God is in fact cruel and/or does not exist. I had to throw in my $.02 not to argue with someone else's beliefs , but b/c I don't want anyone to think that all Christians believe this as it could hinder someone from knowing God as anything but loving and as "no respector of persons" (in other words he does not favor one of his children over the other).
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb All I meant was we have a choice. I don't think being blessed with free will is a sign that God is cruel at all (or non-existent).
Originally Posted By mele It's just not a theory I had ever heard of before. I guess I don't see someone who truly asks to believe in God yet continues to feel nothing is someone using their free will to deny God. If you feel *nothing*...how could you possibly choose to believe? And even then, if you continued to pray to feel something and there is nothing...you either think there is no God or you feel that he has rejected you. Considering many people turn to God when they feel their lives are falling apart, feeling rejected is even harder. Very sad.
Originally Posted By ShivaThDestroyer BoyStory, thank you for your last post. I was really bothered by <<Free will, not everyone was meant to believe.>> but was not happy with any of my attempts to state what you said so eloquently. I was raised Catholic and left the church in my early teens, I went through a long period of atheism and somewhere along the line became agnostic. I used every argument that has been posted in this thread to support my beliefs but thankfully God had more faith in me that I did in Him. My biggest stumbling block was always, "Which is more acceptable to God, A bad Christian or a good atheist." I had also made the mistake of looking at religions and people instead of God, a sure recipe for disillusionment. My becoming a Christian was the result of many unusual "coincidences" and even then I had no faith of my own. Over the next 2-3 months the Lord showed me by *many* convincing proofs that he was real and was exactly who He claimed to be. During my first Easter service after I had become a Christian and which I had really been looking forward to, it was almost as if I head a voice say, "How do you know He's really there?" and the closeness of God's presence that I had so strongly felt for the previous 2-3 months was gone and all the old doubts returned. Looking back, I think it was like the Lord knew he had planted enough of a seed that would either grow or die depending on my free will. The next few years were a living hell, I fought with my doubts, read the Bible and prayed. I have never felt God's presence again like I did in the beginning but my faith grew and I will never deny Him again. I'm not a super-Christian nor even a very good example of one, just someone who once walked the other path. One of my favorite truisms is: Man says to God, Show me a miracle and I'll believe in You." God says to man, "Believe in me and I'll show you miracles". ...all I can say is that it worked for me.
Originally Posted By ShivaThDestroyer >>I guess I don't see someone who truly asks to believe in God yet continues to feel nothing is someone using their free will to deny God. If you feel *nothing*...how could you possibly choose to believe?<< Mele, I has soooo been there. One thing I've learned is that although there will be times that God does carry you, you can't rely on feelings. Faith is the operative word, not feelings and... Ecclesiastes 3:1: "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven" Sometimes God's answer is yes, sometimes it's no and other times it might just take a while. One of the interesting things that I learned after I became a Christian was that one of my DW's high school friends had been praying for my salvation for over 8 years. I really believe that God honored her faithfulness and I am so thankful.
Originally Posted By johnno52 A hypothetical question for believers. Use gender to suit yourselves. One spouse dies at age 40 and goes to heaven. The widow/er stays faithful and never marries and he/she dies at age 80 and goes to heaven also. When they meet will one be still 40 and the other 80? If so, then I can see the 80 year old being in "heaven" but would this be considered "hell" for the 40 year old? :-(
Originally Posted By ShivaThDestroyer johnno52, that's actually a good question but the implication is that marriage is an Earthly institution and we will have bodies similar to those of the angels. I doubt that physical condition nor age at time of death is a factor. At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30)
Originally Posted By johnno52 >marriage is an Earthly institution< Thanks Shiva, when living out of wedlock the phrase "living in sin" is given? >we will have bodies similar to those of the angels.< I thought God made Adam & Eve in his image, and wouldn't the Angels also be in this same image? >At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30)< So no sex, err love that is? :-(
