Originally Posted By hightp It looks like Clint is saying sports need an offense and a defense. If that's the case, I guess there is no defensive side to golf. It would make the game more interesting to me, though, if there was. Imagine hitting the ball only to have someone on the green trying to hit it back at you. It could be fun, but I don't know how you'd score it.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut Golf is a sport. It may not be the most physically demanding sport, but it is a sport. If you based sports on physical ascertain alone, than the UPS guy and the mailmen are athletes. They have an offense and a defense. Just because golf is more mental than physical does not take away the fact that it is competitive, takes a considerable amount of skill and is definitely a team thing.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 This board is for posting opinions is it not. So your ///argument/// is that I have no basis because most people deem it a sport and that the dictionary lists it as a sport. Here is some news for you since you don't understand much on this topic, THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT of bringing it up in the first place. I am trying to challenge a given or a commonly held belief and offered quite a bit of support none of which you refuted except using the dictionary((((the very underlying thing I was basically disputing in the first place))))
Originally Posted By vbdad55 the defense in golf is put up by the course itself - designed to create problems ( bunkers / water hazards/ rough / OB etc)- as well as the elements. A course will play totally different if there is a 20 - 25 mph wind, or if it is cold vs humid - rain etc. as far as having to have physical contact, very little of that in baseball , none in tennis / track / field etc -- so I really don't get that one. By that description the decathalon would not be a sport, but the mosh pit at a NIN concent would be -
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 //// If you based sports on physical ascertain alone,//// but I don't. I see a sport as something physically demanding(((((again, walking 4 or more miles in the sun unencumbered doesn't cut it))) whereby one needs endurance conditining, strength, agility and competes directly against another. I offered one exception which I could come up with and that was diving. There is nothing athletic about golf except swinging a very light club at a stationary ball many times over. The competition is fierce in golf but are spelling bees. Golf is an extremely easy activity to play that is why elderly elect to play it but it is also extremely hard to master.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ////the defense in golf is put up by the course itself - designed to create problems ( bunkers / water hazards/ rough / OB etc)- as well as the elements. A course will play totally different if there is a 20 - 25 mph wind, or if it is cold vs humid - rain etc.//// I'm not sure if you saw but I already said this but in different wording where I said it's the player against the course and elements and against himself. ////as far as having to have physical contact, very little of that in baseball , none in tennis / track / field etc -- so I really don't get that one. By that description the decathalon would not be a sport, but the mosh pit at a NIN concent would be -//// I agree that physical contact is not a necessary element to be a sport but it sure helps. Again, I like to say ///direct human opponent/// such as two sprinters side by side racing or a pitcher and batter or two boxers going at it. Golf has nothing in this area.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ///Clint is saying sports need an offense and a defense/// Just like physical contact, offense and defense is not a necessary element to be a sport but it sure does help when evaluating or deciding to label something as a sport.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 The only two necessary elements to make up a sport is phyisical athleticism and competition. All sports must have at least these two elements. Golf definitely has one(((fierce competition))) but sorely lacks the other.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut There are all levels of physical athleticism and walking 4 miles in the hot sun is physically demanding. When compared to a marathon of course it is nothing, but it still is physically demanding. Even more than Baseball. Which is short spurts of standing, sitting, walking and hitting. As a matter of fact, if your a right fielder and bad at the plate I would say you do less physical activity than any golfer on the pro tour.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 okay - how''s this for golf defense ? <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2916863" target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/golf /news/story?id=2916863</a> VENICE, Fla. -- A man who lost his ball in a golf course pond nearly lost a limb when a nearly 11-foot alligator latched on to his arm and pulled him in the water, authorities said. Bruce Burger, 50, was trying to retrieve his ball Monday from a pond on the sixth hole at the Lake Venice Golf Club. The alligator latched on to Burger's right forearm and pulled him in the pond, said Gary Morse, a spokesman for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Burger used his left arm to beat the reptile until it freed him. "I saw him reach down to get his ball and he yelled" for help, said Janet Pallo, who was playing the fifth hole and ran over to drive the man to the clubhouse. Burger, from Lenoir City, Tenn., was taken to a hospital but was not seriously injured, Morse said Tuesday. It took seven Fish and Wildlife officers an hour to trap the one-eyed alligator, which measured 10 feet, 11 inches, Morse said. The pond at the sixth hole has a "Beware of Alligator" sign.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Again, I like to say ///direct human opponent/// such as two sprinters side by side racing or a pitcher and batter or two boxers going at it. Golf has nothing in this area. < here's where I disagree with this - you have 2 - 3 golfers tied in a tournament - walking up to the par 5 18th hole - each has to decide - do I try and reach it in 2, do I play it safe - and many times this is dictated by who they are playing. If you are playing Tiger - you know he is going to try and reach it in 2 - so it changes your approach to your shots, and challenges your skill level...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <The only two necessary elements to make up a sport is phyisical athleticism and competition. All sports must have at least these two elements. Golf definitely has one(((fierce competition))) but sorely lacks the other< I still make the case that being able to hit the ball 300 yards when you need it - is as much physical athleticism as it is hand/eye - you have got to be able to drive your body thru the ball, turn your hips at the right moment of impact etc in order to accomplish that -
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ////Archery, badminton, basketball, golf, powerlifting, racquetball, softball, swimming, synchronized swimming, table tennis, tennis, track & field, volleyball, 5K and 10K runs. All sports offered in the Sunshine State Games (in Florida). Oh...and the prerequisite is you must be OVER 50 years old as these are the Senior games. Personally...I like my crow bar-b-q'd.//// wahooskipper I am sorry that I initially missed this one. I didn't mean to disregard anything that you wrote. But now that I have read it Do you really consider people in their 50's elderly? Maybe back in 1805 where people died all the time in their 50's and few lived to be 70. But today I sure don't. I think of people past seventy-five. Many of my clients have been in their 90's and they still walk. Most of my clients are in the mid 80's and never in 7 years and 150+ clients have I had anyone in their 60's. By the way I am in an industry which gives direct care to our elder population. I won't be eating crow ((((yet))))
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ///The pond at the sixth hole has a "Beware of Alligator" sign./// lol, you got me on that. going up against gators DOES require a lot of athleticism!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Is weightlifting a sport? More than likely not. There is no physical contact between competitors. Although it certainly does take raw brute strength (so does tossing hay-bales) there is little skill or hand-eye coordination involved. Nope. Not a sport.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ///- you have 2 - 3 golfers tied in a tournament - walking up to the par 5 18th hole - each has to decide - do I try and reach it in 2, do I play it safe - and many times this is dictated by who they are playing. If you are playing Tiger - you know he is going to try and reach it in 2 - so it changes your approach to your shots, and challenges your skill level...//// good point! but that scenario sounds very momentous and applies to only part of 1 hole out of 18 and that scenario is not even a given in every tourney. But for what it's worth I see what you are saying.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ///Is weightlifting a sport?/// I don't know. There is no ///athleticism/// involved so that hurts its case quite a bit, but there is fierce competition and obviously huge amounts of physical strength needed and conditioning. I really don't know. very grey area like race car driving ///There is no physical contact between competitors(((( in weight lifting))))/// true but again physical contact is not a necessary element in sports. But like I said earlier it does ///help the cause/// if you will when deeming or labeling an activity a sport.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut how is race car driving a grey area? I would say it is one of the most physical demanding sports as far as stamina goes. 500 or so miles of continues movement (steering, shifting, adjusting to changing track conditions) not to mention the mental strain put on you from concentrating harder than any other time in your life at 100% for 3+ hours, not to mention the 100+ degree temperatures that the cars sustain (well maybe not open tops such as Indy, F1 or P1 LeMans. Flip that over to off road racing which adds bumps, jumps, rolls and sheer blindness at points. You want contact? Try hitting a wall at 75+ Gs such as Robert Kubica hitting the wall in Canada and only sustaining a sprained ankle and wrist. If that isnt physical conditioning I dont know what is. I am definitely going to have to say that Race Car driving is a sport that rivals conditioning and physical exertain(sp?) of any other sport you can name, accept for maybe rock climbing and running a marathon.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ///(((golf is)))Even more(((physically demanding)))) than Baseball. Which is short spurts of standing, sitting, walking and hitting. As a matter of fact, if your a right fielder and bad at the plate I would say you do less physical activity than any golfer on the pro tour./// Very much agree with you on that scenario. I would like to note that baseball is EXTREMELY complex especailly when caomparing it to something like boxing or tennis. it has several very different elements to it and specialization and requires many people to play. To complicate things baseball has relief pitchers, desinated hitters, pinch runners, and 9 different defensive positions 2 of which are very very unique(((pitching and catching)))and to complicate things further many different tools to play are needed: a ball, bat, glove and of gloves there are 4 totally different ones used like the normal fielding glove, first basemans glove, catchers glove and pitchers glove. Other needed gear is the head to toe catchers gear and batting helmets. baseball is sprinkled with all kinds of physical activity. Strength for sending a ball 350 feet or further, agility like the shortstop making a dazzling play, endurance like the pitcher trying to go the distance and sprinting like a base steel or tracking down a ball hit in the gap or trying to stretch a triple bagger. but yes most of baseball is just standing around waiting.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 You have a good points for adding race car driving to the sports list.
