Originally Posted By Pixie Glitter BTW, here in Vastly Superior Land, it is 1:30 a.m., so this Texan will be back tomorrow to continue the conversation. ;-)
Originally Posted By Chris in Atlanta Pixie, when you do get back , I have a question that I posted for you and Lisann to answer in your Q and A thread. Thanks! Sleep well.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***So if I am understanding you, RoadTrip, you are saying that "many Texans seem to promote" the generalization that Texan is a hostile environment for gays?*** I'm sure he'll chime in to speak for himself, but my impression is that he meant something more broad, as in "Texas promotes the way of the redneck" kinda thing. I'll say one thing on the whole "bigotry" thing though, and this has nothing to do with Texas but it does seem more prevalent in the "red states", which is probably just to say it's more of a rural thing...I don't really see anything wrong with disliking willfully ignorant or intentionally "stupid" people (and no I'm not talking about people with real disabilities, just people who seem to take some sort of pride in being uninformed). But don't get me wrong, there is a version of it in the inner cities too, and I don't like that any more than the redneck version.
Originally Posted By Chris in Atlanta >>> But don't get me wrong, there is a version of it in the inner cities too, and I don't like that any more than the redneck version. <<< I'm with ya. I know what you mean. Some people honestly just don't know any better. Let me post some lyrics of one of my favorite songs: Some People Change By Montgomery Gentry His old man was a rebel yeller: Bad boy to the bone. He'd say: "Can't trust that other fella," He'd judge 'em by the tone of their skin. He was raised to think like his Dad: Narrow mind full of hate. On the road to no-where fast, Till the Grace of God got in the way. Then he saw the Light an' hit his knees an' cried an' said a prayer: Rose up a brand new man; left the old one right there. Here's to the strong; thanks to the brave. Don't give up hope: some people change. Against all odds, against the grain, Love finds a way: some people change. She was born with her mother's habit: You could say: "It's in her blood." She hates that she's gotta have it: As she fills her glass up. An she'd love to kill that bottle, But all she can think about, Is a, a better life, a second chance, An' everyone she's letting down. She throws that bottle down. Here's to the strong; thanks to the brave. Don't give up hope: some people change. Against all odds, against the grain, Love finds a way: some people change. Thank God for those who make it: Let them be the Light. (Let them be the light) (Some people change.) Here's to the strong; thanks to the brave. Don't give up hope: some people change. Against all odds, against the grain, Love finds a way: some people change. Some people change. (Some people change) Of course, and unfortunately, some people choose NOT to change.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So if I am understanding you, RoadTrip, you are saying that "many Texans seem to promote" the generalization that Texan is a hostile environment for gays?>> No, no, no. Nothing about gays (in my experience). I find that Texas seems to promote a feeling that it is superior to other states. Whether it is "Don't Mess with Texas", the whole "America's Team" thing, or the frequent assertion on bulletin boards that Texas could do without the rest of the United States a whole lot better than the rest of the United States could do without Texas. The whole secession thing just reinforces this stereotype. There is also the fact, as experienced by my mother and two sisters who moved to Texas from somewhere else, that transplants are made to feel inferior to "native Texans". I find this particularly ironic since my mother was BORN and RAISED in Texas. She just lived in Minnesota for about 30 years in the interim.
Originally Posted By Chris in Atlanta >>>or the frequent assertion on bulletin boards that Texas could do without the rest of the United States a whole lot better than the rest of the United States could do without Texas<<< Not sure this isn't the case, regardless of how arrogant it is to say...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Now Chris, don't get me started... About all Texas offers today is refineries, and those could be built in many other locations. Other than that the main thing Texas gives us is illegal nannies. ;-)
Originally Posted By Chris in Atlanta Dayum, I KNOW you didn't go there. LOL! Ok ok ok... The refineries aren't IN another area tho. And, explain how the economy of TX is so good, compared to the economy of CA. Why is that?
Originally Posted By Chris in Atlanta And keep in mind, I have no particular interest in Texas, I gain nothing by promoting Texas, its a southwestern state. I'm only a yeller for my southern brethren. But I'm curious, is it all that oil tax? I heard they have no income taxes there.
Originally Posted By mawnck <a href="http://www.texasspirit.net/" target="_blank">http://www.texasspirit.net/</a> >> HELLO FROM TEXAS! Native Texans are a proud and admittedly arrogant bunch. We love Texas with a ferocity that people from other states just can't comprehend. We don't mind telling you how great it is. You see, we aren't shy -- or humble. We know that we live in the best place on earth. One of our best qualities is that we are not afraid to laugh at ourselves, and we provide plenty of opportunities for ourselves and others to laugh. We are the brunt of lots of jokes, many of which have some truth in them. Along with our pride, we have lots of quirks, and I'll cover many of those in detail -- including our unhealthy but delicious foods, colorful sayings, hell-hot summers, and the way we talk.<< The whole site is stereotypical jokes about Texas. And I'm not sure where this fits in with anything, but ... <a href="http://www.tgra.org/cms_home/" target="_blank">http://www.tgra.org/cms_home/</a>
Originally Posted By DAR <<You know the Braves claim this title too. But we are better than Texas so go figure! ;p>> That would be Native America's team
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Could you give some specific examples of being "immediately bombarded with Texas macho messages" in the airport?>> Yeah. The large number of businessmen in suits and cowboy boots and cowboy hats walking down the corridors barking orders into their cell phones. [Why would a businessman going on or returning from a plane trip dress in boots and a hat unless he wanted to definitively proclaim himself as Texan?] The way that men and women interact together there. The absence of any references to gays in airport media. The omnipresence of the "Don't Mess With Texas" thing in all the airport souvenir shops and on the chests of many of the locals. I'll concede that scary stories about Texas preceded my visits to the state. Stories from women I know personally who moved there and found the men to be unselfconsciously, unapologetically macho, anti-gay, and a bit... well, for lack of a more concise term, misogynistic. Stories about gays being attacked. At least in my case, a visit to the airport doesn't do anything to alleviate any concern brought about by those stories. It reinforces it. <<You mentioned the unofficial state logo earlier--"Don't Mess With Texas." Gotta say, I can't see how that slogan has anything to do with sexuality. Frankly I am at a complete loss as to what these "Texas macho messages" are that you immediately inferred were somehow anti-gay.>> "Don't Mess With Texas" is an explicit verbal message that's antagonistic and that threatens violence. That's qualitatively different than the slogan any other tourist locale has adapted. It's no "I [Heart] New York," "Virginia Is For Lovers," or "Welcome to New Mexico!" Texans have embraced a message that conveys, "So you're here. Don't screw with us." "Don't mess with Texas" is macho. And part of "macho" is "anti-gay." It goes with the territory. <<I'm also puzzled by your wallet on the bar example. The sexuality of the patrons of the bar seems a moot point... I just don't see where you're going with that one.>> I was worried that setting my analogy in a gay bar would prove too confusing for some. I guess I should have set it in "Cheers." The point remains. While you might trust that 99% of the population you're with is friendly, sincere, and honest, you still have to protect yourself from the 1% who would take advantage of you. [For the analogy-impaired: Even if one trusts that 99% of Texans are decent, non-violent folk, one needs to be on guard about the 1% who may be a threat.] <<This is feeling more and more like a personal fight, and I don't get that.>> Ummmmm. No. It's not a personal fight on my part. I'm sorry (and a bit puzzled) that you feel that way. I posted about how being in Texas made me feel. I didn't blame any individuals. <<I stated that I don't think it's right to single out a group and make sweeping negative generalizations about them. You keep coming back and saying you don't think all Texans are anti-gay and yet still trying to prove that Texas is a hostile environment for gays. I think that is an untrue and unfair generalization.>> I don't get why you see a contradiction in my position. Would it be "a sweeping generalization" on my part to say that African-Americans are disproportionately affected by HIV in the US? Would it be untrue to observe that more Lebanese-Americans watch the Arabic-language cable channel than do Irish-Americans? Would it be unfair to say that lesbians are disproportionately represented on co-rec softball teams? No. Those are just observations of reality. We can make accurate observations -- generalizations, if you will -- about groups of people. Does that mean that ALL people within that demographic category conform to the higher-than-average group behavior? Absolutely not. The GROUP has a higher-than-average score. Any INDIVIDUAL within the group may have any sort of score: low; average; or high. But the generalization about the group remains accurate. I'll try to make my original point again... I do find Texas to be a hostile environment for gays. I don't believe that all Texans are anti-gay.
Originally Posted By Pixie Glitter Alrighty then. Based on visiting the state you have deemed it a hostile environment for gays. Having lived in the state for nearly twenty years, I don't see evidence that Texas on the whole is a hostile environment for gays. So I'll agree to disagree. I'm curious to find out what my local gay friends think about the environment. It's hard to believe that so very many choose to live here if they find it hostile. It'll be interesting to hear their thoughts on the matter.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Just as an aside, the "Don't Mess With Texas" slogan was created over 20 years ago as an anti-littering campaign. <a href="http://www.dontmesswithtexas.org/" target="_blank">http://www.dontmesswithtexas.org/</a>
