Originally Posted By danyoung > I just also think back to 987 and see tha things aren't quite as clean, CMs quite as helpful, etc.< Wow, & I thought I was old!!!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It just seems as though all of a sudden is you don't like everything to the nth degree-- event hough you travel to WDW or DL multiple times per year...you are suddenly raining on parades. I just think this is wrong -- people have opinions and my comprehension was a chat room was the place to give them..but hey, maybe I am wrong ? FWIW, I never compare DL to WDW as they are different animals and I have a long history with each. Heck I was at DL in August 1955 ( don't remember much but I was there ) -- each has it's merits -- but comparing MK to DL -- I think that is more fair - and again I like to read peoples opinions... I think most people here are pretty fair in their judgements and many have well over 100 trips in their history to base their opinions on -- I think that makes them valid. Like me, many are DVC owners / stockholders / collectors / AP holders etc..I think somehwere in there is room for honest opinions - good or bad - if put forth with civility and facts to back up why one says what they do. I for one do not want a board where the Pooh Playground is the best attraction since Splash Mountain and where Main Street is better of as all pluch stores than with the old theatre/ magic shot/ arcade etc...it just isn't true -- why pretend that it is. Just like AK is a great park -- and kudos to Disney for taking the risk to put it up and if it continues it may be the best park at WDW -- celebrate the good with the not so good........where is the harm in this ?
Originally Posted By danyoung >...people have opinions and my comprehension was a chat room was the place to give them..but hey, maybe I am wrong ?< It's been my experience that every once in a while a poster is shocked - SHOCKED, I SAY!!! - that people are posting negatives about the Disney properties. I don't begrudge them their opinions, and I hope they can find a place where everyone is always sweet and the threads run along the lines of "My Favorite WDW Attraction" and "How do YOU help others on vacation?". Guys like us, dad, will continue to curmudgeonly spout out our honest opinions, enjoy when people agree as well as when they disagree, and keep boards like this one alive and well!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < Guys like us, dad, will continue to curmudgeonly spout out our honest opinions, enjoy when people agree as well as when they disagree, and keep boards like this one alive and well! < I wear my curmudgeon badge proudly ( I like that word) - as I figure we have earned it over the years Dan...and I don't see most of us who bring up 'issues' as overly negative at all..in fact we seem to usually go out of the way to try and spin things positively, but sometimes that darn reality creeps in there....LOL! Thanks for posting some common sense that makes me not seem like a rain cloud ( but I am gladly a curmudgeon) All Hail ( another weather reference ?) lively interaction in chat rooms !
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney I have been going to WDW since the paint was barely dry in many areas. When Space Mountain wasn't even around. Forget about Alien Enconter, I remember Mission to the MOON! I actually know what it's like to see the Rivers of America filled with watercraft like two paddlewheelers, keelboats, canoes and rafts to TSI. I remember when there was an arcade in Adventureland. I remember 2 a.m. weekend closings in the summer with everything operating. I remember when no buses pulled up to the MK entrance, but trams did (very briefly). I remember when Disney character merchandise was limited to 1-2 shops on Main Street and the Fantasyland shops. When Mickey Mouse could walk around without being mugged by folks seeking pictures and autographs. I remember when you truly could eat off the ground at WDW. It was that clean. I remember when EVERY CM liked (most loved) their jobs and the heritage of the company. I remember when exceeding guest expectations was the demanded by management, not simply BS sent out on press releases. I remember when everyone wore specific costumes and people would be reprimanded or fired for taking costumes off property instead of shopping at WalMart or picking up smokes in 7-11 while wearing one. I likely could write 10,000 words here on why some folks like myself, who still enjoy WDW greatly, damn well know it isn't close to the place it was back in its first few decades. It was a family atmopshere for both guests and cast. I'm sorry if this offends folks who only know a WDW full of characters, a MK where an E-Ticket is replaced by a playground that isn't half the caliber of the McDonald's PlayLand on I-Drive, aWDW overbuilt with tacky motel rooms and timeshares and, something that would have killed Walt if he weren;t already frozen, traffic congestion and busses all over. I would compare it to watching a loved one decline. You still love them, but you do notice. Again, if that bothers you, you should live in a world where everything is positive. You know, like our country today ;-)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < I remember 2 a.m. weekend closings in the summer with everything operating. < < I remember when Disney character merchandise was limited to 1-2 shops on Main Street and the Fantasyland shops. < On behalf of curmudgeons everywhere I would like to bestow upon you our honorary pin. Actually reading some of what you wrote makes me sad as I know it to be true. < a MK where an E-Ticket is replaced by a playground that isn't half the caliber of the McDonald's PlayLand on I-Drive< and don;t even get me started on this............. <Again, if that bothers you, you should live in a world where everything is positive. You know, like our country today ;-) < at least WDW isn't red- blue .........yet ( however the commentaries from some of the yokels attending HoP makes me fume )
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Oh guys, we are all just grumpy oldies (well honorary in my case). But I remember the old magic too. Live entertainment around every corner. The cast member who would go the extra while because it was part of enhancing the show (rather than an entitlement expected by savy guests). A time where one could buy a variety of food offerings in the park. I think the LuvDatDisney put it best with the elderly relative analogy.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "at least WDW isn't red- blue .........yet ( however the commentaries from some of the yokels attending HoP makes me fume )" LOL! I know. That's another thing I remember ---- a wonderful tribute to the institution of the Presidency of the United States (with the great Royal Dano voicing) before some idiot decided we needed speeches by Clinton and Bush. What an absolutely stupid idea.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> something that would have killed Walt if he weren;t already frozen, traffic congestion and busses all over. << I sure have to agree with you on this one. The encroachment of common transportation methods and traffic problems. No imagination there, doggone it.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Forget about Alien Enconter, I remember Mission to the MOON! I actually know what it's like to see the Rivers of America filled with watercraft like two paddlewheelers, keelboats, canoes and rafts to TSI...a wonderful tribute to the institution of the Presidency of the United States (with the great Royal Dano voicing)...< While I applaud your spirit, LuvDatDisney, I need some corroboration on the above points. I don't remember Mission to the Moon ever being in WDW - didn't it open with Mission to Mars? I also don't remember 2 paddlewheelers on the RofA - if there were, what were the names? And while I certainly remember the Hall of Presidents before the current speaking presidents were added, I didn't think Royal Dano voiced the East Coast version like he did Disneyland's classic. Of course, I could be wrong on any or all of the above points. That's why I'm looking for concensus from others with better memories than mine.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy danyoung -- thanks for writing your note. I thought maybe I was the only one who didn't remember two paddlewheelers at WDW. I don't think there's been two paddlewheelers on the river in any Disney park. Maybe they're thinking about Columbia at DL. I think you're right about the Mission to Mars too.
Originally Posted By jmuboy I'm too young to remember a lot of what was listed in post 108. But I am proud to be a young curmudgeoner and agree 100% that WDW is on a downward spiral and I see no end in sight.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well folks, if memory serves, it was Mission to the Moon until about 1977. I'll look it up when I have time (it was in the imagineering guide of the MK). The two boats were the Admiral Joe Fowler and the Richard F Irvine. Royal Dano was in the original HOP, but this was reworked in the mid 70's.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The two boats were the Admiral Joe Fowler and the Richard F Irvine.< Aren't these on the Seven Seas Lagoon, not on the Rivers of America?
Originally Posted By tonyanton The original steamship was the two-stacked "Admiral Joe Fowler." There was also the single-stack "Richard F. Irvine." I'm not sure if they both operated at the same time. I think they did in the '70s until about 1981 when the Fowler was accidentally destroyed beyond repair during rehab. The Irvine was basically completely rebuilt and became the "Liberty Belle" about 1997. The Seven Seas Lagoon ferryboats were renamed around the same time to continue to honor these two men who helped build (literally) WDW, as well as Joe Potter. They replaced the Magic Kingdom I and II and the Kingdom Queen as the 3 ferryboat names.
Originally Posted By tonyanton "Flight to the Moon" opened a few months after the park opening in October '71 (about December or January). It became Mission to Mars in 1975. Someone please correct my dates if I'm off at all. Hope this clears things up. :]
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "While I applaud your spirit, LuvDatDisney, I need some corroboration on the above points." Save your applause for the end, danyoung. I'm not finished my act ;-) "I don't remember Mission to the Moon ever being in WDW - didn't it open with Mission to Mars? I also don't remember 2 paddlewheelers on the RofA - if there were, what were the names? And while I certainly remember the Hall of Presidents before the current speaking presidents were added, I didn't think Royal Dano voiced the East Coast version like he did Disneyland's classic. " Flight to the Moon opened in late 1971 and was replaced by Mission to Mars in early 1975 with the opening of Space Mountain. The two steamships were indeed the Joe Fowler and Richard Irvine, and tonyanton's information about the drydock accident and all of the renaming is accurate. And Royal Dano did voice HoP until at least the late 1980s. He's also heard on the offical LP of the attraction from the 1970s that I own. Any other questions?
