Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I am not a huge fan of WalMart either but it does serve a function that no one else has come up to bat to deal with, in our area. < those people had been up to bat for years providing services-- they were called family owned business that were driven out of business with predatory practices... I view the term Walmarting as taking control of a services or goods delivery, then when you have the market and there is no competition , you let it go to heck in a hand basket, then providing the bare minumum.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I didn't have an axe to grind with individuals on a management team, and there was no internet discussion board so you didn't hear about it from me then. >> Interesting. You start posting on 7/17 when Al Lutz leaked the word on the $1.3 billion that Disney is tossing into DCA and yet you seem to know so much about certain posters. I don't see a thread I'm involved in here on LP.com (from this board to the DCA board to the Disney Business board) that you haven't popped in. And now as a 'newbie' you seem to feel you have some kind of knowledge that I might have an axe to grind with some of the WDW execs ... I wonder what your agenda is here. Oh, and sorry you found gum all over BTMRR in 1987 and didn't have an outlet to register your feelings ... please, let it out, you'll feel so much better.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<At what time do you get off your marketing shift Goof? Maybe we can go hang out at the Ale House behind DTD and get some food using your CM discount.>> Hah. I was kinda thinking this new Goofball might be a marketing hack too! They can't control themselves. Instead of slowly working their way into an online community they just jump in and start slamming others. Yep. Marketing is a possibility.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I just want to be sure that I'm understanding you properly: are you claiming that the reason there are obvious failings of WDW custodial standards these days is a result of the tight labor market? That is, that there is money in the custodial budget sitting there unspent that would be used to staff the missing gum-removers and other personnel, if only there were people willing to take the jobs? And that it's not a matter of cutting back on the custodial budget so the money for the needed positions isn't there to begin with?>> Well, I'm in the process of an interesting debate with Leemac (see the Redstone vs. Iger thread down on the Disney Business board) where he says WDW is too big and there are too many people in the park daily to keep it maintained. Not surprisingly the only other poster on the thread is our new pal Sport Goofy. BTW, want to know the real reason Epcot opens World Showcase at 11 a.m.? It eliminates the need for a third custodial shift and saves oodles of money. And I wonder how many years its been since Disney had CMs on staff specifically to remove gum. I'm going to say they've been gone since 1995.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Amazing how any criticism is immediately linked to hatred of Disney. I love my church but don't always agree with everything, I love my wife and kids but I can be critical also at times, and receive criticism from them when needed. I also love Disney and for someone who lives 1200 miles away I consider myself a frequent guest. I and both of my kids are stockholders, I am a DVC member, a memorabilia collector -- heck I was a Mickey Mouse Club member back in the late 50's -- for most of my life Disney has been a huge part of it... so if I think the Poo playground is a lousy , cheap placement of nothing 12 years after an e-ticket was taken out of commission, or if I complain because some of my favorite restaurants dumb down once great menus because of the DDP when I eat 2 sit down meals a day when there, or if I feel the Studios have been allowed to really fall of from where it was 10 years ago, or maintenance is noticably less, that there are less top end collectibles than there used to be in the days of Disneyana conventions...I now become a WDW or better yet a Disney hater ? Amazing correlation to draw. I know neither Spirit nor TDLFAN personally, only after years on this board and reading their posts do I draw the conclusion that they are passionate about Disney delivering the higest quality experience as they should as the industry standard. I may not agree with all the same things, case by case, but I know they do not in any way hate WDW. If they did they would let it go and move on to something else. There are plenty of people on this site who have concerns, serious concerns about certain issues. Most are the died in the wool Disney fans who support the Mouse to the nth degree...but worry about certain decisions and outcomes. Many things from my childhood are gone, many because of neglect from their owners -- I want my grandchildren to have the very best Disney experience as I did.... doesn't make me or anyone else who lodges valid concerns a Disney hater -- just the opposite. I really hope the view complaint = hater is not a Disney management viewpoint. Many companies took the same kind of approach to their customer in the 80's and 90's -- telling their customers what they wanted instead of listening. Many were major household names, synonymous with their industries. Today kids have no idea who these once stalwarts of industry are, because they are gone.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Great post, VBDAD. And you certainly nailed where both I and TDLFAN are coming from.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Tulsa? >>Well, I'm in the process of an interesting debate with Leemac (see the Redstone vs. Iger thread down on the Disney Business board) where he says WDW is too big and there are too many people in the park daily to keep it maintained.<< Gee, when TDR was at the top of the attendance numbers for oh so many years (and I believe they still do mind you, no matter what the marketing machine at WDW makes us believe), seems to me OLC never had any problems keeping TDL clean, even on it's worst days ever. Why on God's Eath can't WDW do the same? I wonder... Hmmm... Hmmm...
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>those people had been up to bat for years providing services-- they were called family owned business that were driven out of business with predatory practices...<<< Although, I understand what you are saying, I have to disagree with you on that point. Mom and Pop stores were displaced long before WalMart became a power. I am talking about my area now because I have no knowledge of the areas others live in. Smaller chain stores (these may not have appeared in your respective areas) such as W.T. Grants, Giant, Fishman's, Woolworths, Kmarts, Ames, Sears, J.C. Penney's and others killed the family run stores long before Walmart was even heard of in this area. Home Depot and Lowe's killed the locally owned hardware stores but I haven't heard about the evils of those places. Many mentions have been made about how Walmart doesn't pay much, doesn't have good benefits, etc. I worked in and managed some of the locally owned stores, in my case Ben Franklin's years ago and we paid minimum wage and offered absolutely no benefits, not even sick time. Walmart has no monopoly on employee abuse. It, sadly, is the norm for that type of business. (Retailing) I would be willing to bet that even your "high" end, squeaky clean stores pay their help peanuts. I know it sounds like I am defending Walmart and its practices. That is not true, I just get upset when all the blame is placed on one company when this blame is very wide spread. Walmart is no better or no worse than the rest of them, they are just bigger and an easier target. There I go using that other word again.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I just want to be sure that I'm understanding you properly: are you claiming that the reason there are obvious failings of WDW custodial standards these days is a result of the tight labor market? >> No, I'm saying that among probably many reasons, staffing contributes to the quality of custodial services being provided by nearly every service-based company today. People
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Careful, Goofyernmost, before the Witches put a curse on you!<<< I'm not worried...they can't hurt me, I'm invincible and adored by all.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA It's fascinating to me to see Disney bragging about Disney service, Disney quality, Disney Cleanlimess, Disney attention to detail et al, and holding business seminars telling other companies how great Disney is. And yet, when Disney quality erodes, so many here defend, defend, defend. Even going so far as to say 'well, that's how business is?' Maybe for most companies it is. But there was a time, in the not so distant past, that Disney quality was really something to brag about. It was truly exceptional. Now, it's a bit inconsistent -- fuuny, isn't it? When I was a Disney Traditions instructor, the crux of our presentation came down to 4 main points -- safety, courtesy, show, and consistency.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << And yet, when Disney quality erodes, so many here defend, defend, defend >> And others make outlandish comparisons of Disney to completely disparate business models like Wal-Mart or Six Flags. The erosion of quality is an industry-wide problem in service related businesses. I'm pretty sure Disney struggles with the same issues that Nordstrom faces -- anyone else notice the same decline in customer service standards there that I have over the past decade there? Let's start a thread comparing Nordstrom to Wal-Mart! When I was there shopping for shoes last weekend, there were shoe boxes scattered all over the floor, no salespeople to wait on me, and they didn't have my size shoe in stock. I might as well have been shopping at Big Lots! I didn't see anyone scraping gum up there either!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Just letting you know I've got your back!<<< Good to know...now I can be even more reckless!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Absolutely, Jim. Where I disagree is the root causes. There isn't some sinister management team out there looking for ways to get more gum on the pavement as part of their business model. The slide in quality is industry-wide. There are some who want to view this as the fault of some sinister management team, but it's a struggle for every business nationwide right now.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA ^why now? What makes the WDW property different than 20 years ago? More properties and not enough staff to keep them clean?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy What makes Orlando different than 20 years ago? All the growth hasn't been limited to Lake Buena Vista. You have to staff all of the hotel/motels/restaurants on I-Drive too, you know? WDW doesn't have exclusive rights to the labor market in Orange County. The same applies in Anaheim, too. How many more restaurants and 24-hour big box stores line the streets of America today than 20 years ago? If you continue to define the problem in terms of a focus on Disney alone, it's hard to figure out the root causes and eventual solutions to get things back on the upward slope.
