Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "So, what is the outlier? The knuckleheads you point out or the millions of others who quietly observe their faith?" If these folks cared anything at all about the perception of their various faiths they would speak up before it's too late and the world sweeps them away with the rest of the right wing trash. The sad reality is that they don't care enough to speak out, and so many people view them as being complicit in perpetrating the garbage of the religious extremists. They can actively do something, or sit there and pretend that Christian hate groups like the Westboro Baptist Church don't exist, but if they continue to do the latter it will be to their peril.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I have spoken out on this website. I have spoken out amongst friends and peers. I have spoken to both my priest and written letters to church leadership. I'm a father of 2 and a husband and I'm not going to go running around the country trying to have a confrontation with every person who claims to love Jesus who's actions seem to be contrary. So, without being too blunt, what the hell would you have me do? You know how I try and speak out for Christianity? By being a good Christian.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "You know how I try and speak out for Christianity? By being a good Christian." I wasn't talking about you in particular Wahooskipper, but Christians in general. Where are the church organizations that organize and stomp their feet when they feel their religious freedoms are being impeded? When will those groups come forward and condemn their leaders for perpetrating bigotry, sexism and standing in the way of equal rights of all Americans? In the wake of all of these horrible tragedies why aren't these diligent followers of Christ stepping up and demanding that there be better controls and safety measures for gun ownership in this country? Instead they are either silent or telling us that I'm overreacting and that guns are mostly safe. "I have spoken to both my priest and written letters to church leadership." And their response was? On a slightly different note the article at this link shows just how foolish Americans can be. <a href="http://gawker.com/5969486/utah-kid-who-brought-gun-to-class-claims-parents-armed-him-for-protection-following-sandy-hook-shooting" target="_blank">http://gawker.com/5969486/utah...shooting</a>
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Let me add to this as I'm getting a little ticked off. THE Baptist Church has condemned the Westboro Baptist Church and pointed out on many occasions that they are not affiliated in any way. The Westboro Baptist Church is largely this knucklehead Fred and his big family. Anything else the real Baptist chuch does publicly just serves to bring more publicity to that knucklhead so I don't blame anyone for just letting it go. People who can't figure out the difference are more dangerous than Fred and the clan.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper "Christians in general." How can you even make that statement? How can you know what is in the hearts and minds of Christians? There isn't much my Priest can do without being defrocked I suppose but he certainly is understanding and compassionate when I speak to him. My wife and I went through fertility treatment (a Catholic no-no) and I confessed my "sin" to my priest. He prayed for us and wished us well...and then baptized my two children. No more broad brushes.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Just because the media isn't reporting on the actions of non-inflammatory Christian churches, that doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything. Phelps gets airtime. The pastor at the little church down the street that let homeless women sleep in the parish hall and who is getting money and food together for the family that just lost their job doesn't.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm both Christian and Conservative and from the hour after the school shootings on I have been advocating for stricter gun control...as have many of my friends in social media and other circles. Tom is exactly right. The good that Christians do across the world doesn't get airtime because it ain't sexy and it doesn't drive ratings. Frankly, we (Americans) woud rather spend 4 days with hour to hour coverage of 20 dead children then spend any time at all hearing about initiatives across the globe that aim to better humanity. That stuff is just too boring.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <When will those groups come forward and condemn their leaders for perpetrating bigotry, sexism and standing in the way of equal rights of all Americans? > They exist, Hans. As Tom and Wahoo point out, they don't usually get much publicity, but some who have gotten at least a little would be the "nuns on the bus" and Barry W. Lynn (UCC minister and Executive Director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.)
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>When it was just the Westboro Baptist Church it was an aberration. When pastors across the country calling for the extermination of gays it's not an aberration<< Six out of how many? Are you really trying to extrapolate that to the 200+ million Christians in the USA? I seem to recall that far, far more ministers came out and condemned those 6 nut jobs.
Originally Posted By dshyates " Are you really trying to extrapolate that to the 200+ million Christians in the USA?" The turn out at the "Chick-fil-a: Christians Hate Gays Day" looked like a lot more than 6 nut jobs to me.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "They exist, Hans. As Tom and Wahoo point out, they don't usually get much publicity..." They would if they protested in numbers. The thing is, they don't. The LDS Church certainly got a lot of attention for funneling money into Prop 8. What if they did the same for gun control in the name of Christianity? Are you saying that the media wouldn't pick that up?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I say this as a person who's never had to go through the ridicule and scorn, that dshyates or Hans or Dabob2 have had to go through so keeping that in mind. Who gives a rat's ass what a bunch strangers you never met think about who you want to love. As long as you have have the love and support of your family and friends I would think that's more important.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "As long as you have have the love and support of your family and friends I would think that's more important." Some of us haven't had that either.
Originally Posted By dshyates " As long as you have have the love and support of your family and friends I would think that's more important." I get love from my family, but not support and they DO NOT approve. They are Christians. And since I moved alone 700 miles from home, my friends network mostly exist here.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I do get love and support from my family (with certain exceptions), and also from my very welcoming church. I know that is not always the case and believe me, I know how much that sucks. <They would if they protested in numbers. The thing is, they don't.> They don't get much attention when they protest on behalf of famine victims, etc. either. What the media chooses to focus on is a whole other topic. <The LDS Church certainly got a lot of attention for funneling money into Prop 8. What if they did the same for gun control in the name of Christianity? Are you saying that the media wouldn't pick that up?> Yes, I think they would, and I'd like to see them do it. My church has been big on gun control for years, but as a "liberal church," it kind of becomes a "dog bites man" story, and it never gets picked up.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Who gives a rat's ass what a bunch strangers you never met think about who you want to love. As long as you have have the love and support of your family and friends I would think that's more important." Well because the way all these strangers think make life very difficult. I would be pretty pissed if i was not able to marry my husband the person i love and even more pissed if he was dying in a hospital and not able to be at his side. "I get love from my family, but not support and they DO NOT approve. They are Christians" There are so many things that still have to change.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Another thing I'm not willing to play the violent movies or tv plays a role card. But violent video games, that I might be willing to listen to more. Even Saturday I was watching a basketball game and I saw two ads for Call of Duty. We're simply a violent a culture." Why does this matter? Counties with low gun related deaths play these games and watch violent movies too.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I play online shooters with guys from Canada and England all the time. They don't use the murder rates we do. But they have national health care the covers mental health.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The turn out at the "Chick-fil-a: Christians Hate Gays Day" looked like a lot more than 6 nut jobs to me.<< And how many millions did not go? I thought we were talking about nutjobs who were advocating violence against gays. As far as I recall, the management at Chik-Fil-A did no such thing.
