Originally Posted By beamerdog >>"2.) Special buses just for these folks."<< Way back when before they had this mamouth bussing system that's what they did. Disney had a van come and pick up my family and me (in a wheelchair) and do a sort of airport limosine-style run to a from our destinations. I've given my opinion a million times here on the board. I have a service dog and I wouldn't be able to walk for a whole day or even walk up a flight of steps if I didn't have him. I don't take advantage. We wait in line as a family whenever we can. Sometimes it even takes longer to board a ride since they can only stop the ride at certain spots. I hate that people take advantage of the situation. It makes life so much harder for those of us who need a little help. btw, because someone uses a wheelchair doesn't mean that they can't walk short distances without help or transfer to a regular seat. Trust me, with the exception of Cirque du Soleil, handicapped seating usually stinks. Everything takes longer. Lots of times I have to wait for the crowds to subside before we can even attempt to exit. I can only do about 1/3 of the attractions that I use to do. I can no longer go to the park during hot weather or when the crowds are too large. People constantly interfere with my dog's job of helping me. Kids scream at him and he's even had his tail pulled. Sometimes I'm just feeling so bad or in so much pain that we go back to the room. But I keep it to myself, I don't look handicapped and no one would think that anything is wrong. So, I'm sorry that this rotten situation exists. Disney needs to improve the system. I'm sure that it can be done. If you want to rant about it here, go ahead and vent. I don't really care if you want to lump me into the unfairly advantaged group or what you think about me. Come walk in my shoes for one day.
Originally Posted By dlkozy As I understand it, only 2 chairs can be on the bus at any one time. How many able bodied can be on the bus at any one time? 40 or so? (I don't know as we rent a car, so someone will have to fill me in). So if you have the wheelchair bound waiting in line "like everyone else" and you get 12 wheelchairs in line-they now have to wait for 6 buses before they are all loaded. It seems to me if someone is THAT cranky at the end of the day because a wheelchair boards before they do-perhaps they should go home from the parks earlier! I understand that there should be a limit to how many people should be able to board with a wheelchair-but I feel that there should be a limit to how many should be able to board with a stroller too as strollers take up extra room as well.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Well, it's federal law. The ADA dictates how people with disabilities are to be handled and, believe me, they are first always. The law does not take into account fairness to the majority, convenience or even safety. It only flat out rules that any disabled person will take priority over an abled person. Oh, and another thing, all a person has to do is say they are disabled. You are not allowed to ask, in what way or what restrictions it covers. If you want preferential treatment just say you're disabled. If you can live with yourself after that, it's all good. >>> I think that what happened at DL and how it got resolved serve as excellent examples for the WDW situation. For those of you that didn't follow it at the time, the situation at DL had gotten very much out of control with large numbers of people renting wheelchairs (sometimes with people switching off as the role of the person in the wheelchair) or otherwise claiming disability as it served as a "front of the line" pass for attractions. DL management came up with an ADA-compliant solution: ask the guest with a claimed disability what accomodation they need, and give them a pass that accomodates them. For example, if they are wheelchair-bound, then they get a pass that gives them access through the exit of only those attractions where the regular queue is not wheelchair-compatible. They took away the "front of the line" aspect of disability accomodation and guess what: the problem almost completely went away. The people that had genuine disabilities are still accomodated per the ADA, but with the incentive for misuse removed, the abuse went away. The situation at WDW is a little different, but I just wanted to point out that there are solutions out there that are compatible with the ADA and that the ADA is sometimes misunderstood. When the DL solution was first implemented, there were people screaming about the ADA (not to mention their APs :-( ) and how they were going to sue or get the feds involved. Well guess what - things seem to be continuing just fine with the new policies at DL and they haven't had to change them, so I think it's quite clear at this point that the new policies are lawful.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<One day they want to be treated fairly then the other they take advantage of every perk they can get. On one occasion a couple had to get out of the seat to load a wheelchair.>> You act like disabled people are "getting one over" on you. Can you imagine never being able to walk? Can you imagine being a quadraplegic? I can pretty much guarantee you that any disabled person would gladly give up their "first boarding" privileges in order to be able to function as "normal" people do. This is the most revolting, selfish discussion I've ever heard on this board.
Originally Posted By dlkozy It's been awhile since I have rented a wheelchair at WDW as DL is where we spend most of our "Disney" Time. But, when you rent a wheelchair at DL you are not allowed to take it out of the park-isn't this also what WDW does? If so-it seems to me that there is a pretty good chance that the chairs that you are seeing outside of the park are indeed being used by those that need them. As far as the person who once on the bus, slid over to a padded seat-my Mom (who uses a wheelchair) has done the same at times. It gets VERY tiring on the tooshie to always be in the chair and it is a nice relief so sit on something cushie.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<But, when you rent a wheelchair at DL you are not allowed to take it out of the park-isn't this also what WDW does? If so-it seems to me that there is a pretty good chance that the chairs that you are seeing outside of the park are indeed being used by those that need them.>> Animal Kingdom, Epcot and MGM provide transfer chairs to assist guests in getting to and from the parking lot/bus area to the front gate. These chairs remain outside the parks and have flags attached to the top. Magic Kingdom doesn't have these same chairs, but they will let you take a wheelchair out of the park itself to get someone to the bus area. My mom hates having to use a wheelchair, but if she didn't she wouldn't be able to visit WDW. She's fine walking around a store or short distances, but she couldn't make the trek around the parks. Usually if she wants to go shopping we park the chair outside the store and she walks around inside, just because she gets tired of being in the chair. Gee, do some of you want to tie her down and holler at her because she doesn't use her chair the whole time? Can you imagine if you were unable to walk or stand at all and were confined to the chair all day? I still can't believe some of you are complaining about wheelchair bound guests boarding buses before you. You don't know how lucky you have it. Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourselves - I've never seen such a petty and childish discussion in my life.
Originally Posted By munchkinmom I have read most of the posts in the topic and can see both sides of the fence. My son is visually impaired and he uses a cane and has to wear sunglasses since the sun is damaging to his eyes. We get a special pass when we get to the parks, but only ask that we be seated down in the front so that he can see the shows. Otherwise, we wait in line just like everyone else since he is perfectly able to get around on his own. AS for the ADA laws, it doesn't indicate that the disabled get to be "first" only that they have equal access. If there is a restaurant that able bodied people are able to access, then it has to be accessible for the disabled. Same for the restrooms, those in a wheelchair have first access to the handicapped stall. This should always be empty except for those who are in wheelchairs. I don't think anyone has a problem with those in wheelchairs getting the spot on the bus, but when they have to bring the whole crew or they make a huge deal of getting on ahead of everyone else, that is when people get upset. My son and those who are disabled just want to have equal access and to be treated with dignity and respect. I don't think that is asking too much, it is just the right thing to do.
Originally Posted By dlkozy It sounds as though wheelchair bound people HAVE to be able to board first because of their having to lower the buses for them to do so which would be impossible to do if they were the last to board-especially considering the size of some of today's Disney guests!
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost That is exactly correct. They must be loaded first because logistically it would be very difficult to do otherwise. There is also a portion of the law that says that if your bus is full and a wheel-chaired patron is in need of a ride, that the person in the wheelchair will get space over an abled person even if that means that those sitting in the positions needed for wheelchair securement must move to allow room for the chair. No, ifs, ands or buts, they must be accommodated unless whomever is doing the transportation can guarantee that they will be given a ride within a half hour, otherwise they are in violation of the law. I understand the reason for this but I also realize how upset that makes those that are displaced. Political correctness once again uses it's power to focus attention on the very people that are striving hard to be mainstream in spite of their handicap. It is good that all can and must now be accommodated but it is a double edge sword because now they must also endure the, sometimes rude, reactions of people that have no clue as to other peoples problems, nor do they seem to care. Very sad really. I personally would rather stand in line for hours then endure one minute bound to a wheelchair. It's all in how one views life and the good fortune they have been given.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 My issue isn't with people with legit problems that need special attention. My issue is with their party of 11 getting it alongside them. My issue is waiting 30 minutes for a bus, only to see it load two ECVs with morbidly obese or just fat folks get on, THEN walk out of their ECVs and take seats and THEN have their posses join them filling up a good third of the bus before anyone else even gets on. My LARGER issue is with people (a large amount) renting these ECVs and wheelchairs to scam the system (and Disney and other guests) to get preferential treatment. This is a huge problem and it needs to be addressed whether it's politically correct or not.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"My issue is waiting 30 minutes for a bus, only to see it load two ECVs with morbidly obese or just fat folks get on, THEN walk out of their ECVs and take seats ..."<< Did someone make you aware of everyone's health issues-SP74? Sure sounds like you know it all! My husband has a condition that requires him to take meds that balloon his weight-you can't tell by looking at him (but of course you sound like YOU could!) that that was his problem. There are MANY health issues that are not seen, and they have to deal with know-it-alls such as you are sounding. I agree and so have others, if you had bothered to read, that there should be a limit allowed to accompany a chair. \ How about just being grateful that you don't need either a wheelchair or a ECV!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Did someone make you aware of everyone's health issues-SP74? Sure sounds like you know it all!>> Thanks for the compliment. I try and know as much as I can. My teachers in elementary school used to say 'The Spirit learns like a sponge!' <<My husband has a condition that requires him to take meds that balloon his weight-you can't tell by looking at him (but of course you sound like YOU could!) that that was his problem. >> I hope he at least looks like a Mickey balloon! And, no, I never suggested I could tell what your hubby's problem was just by looking at him. However, when I see a 350-pound person get off their ECV with lanyards jangling and walk over for their turkey legs or chicken fingers and fries, I have a good idea what the problem is. <<There are MANY health issues that are not seen, and they have to deal with know-it-alls such as you are sounding.>> Of course there are ... we're all ticking time bombs in one way or another. <<I agree and so have others, if you had bothered to read, that there should be a limit allowed to accompany a chair. >> Yes, I did. But my post wasn't directed at you or any individual. I just don't like it when people can't see that the system IS BEING ABUSED by able-bodied folks and that winds up with those truly needy often getting dirty looks or worse, which should NOT happen! <<How about just being grateful that you don't need either a wheelchair or a ECV!>> I have had MANY healthy problems in my family. Serious ones. Including one that required someone very close to me to be wheelchair bound before she passed away, so don't profess to think that I'm someone who takes health for granted and iis just angry because I had to wait way too long for buses on my last WDW trip. FWIW, this issue almost never effects me because I have a car on 90% of my trips and I drive wherever I go because I know how bad Disney buses can be. Any other comments?
Originally Posted By cswnow <<One day they want to be treated fairly then the other they take advantage of every perk they can get. On one occasion a couple had to get out of the seat to load a wheelchair.>> You act like disabled people are "getting one over" on you. Can you imagine never being able to walk? Can you imagine being a quadraplegic? I can pretty much guarantee you that any disabled person would gladly give up their "first boarding" privileges in order to be able to function as "normal" people do. This is the most revolting, selfish discussion I've ever heard on this board. Whatever. If you don't like the conversation don't participate. Nobody is going out of their way to make their lives miserable. The policy at WDW is wrong. Oh but life isn't fair. Excuse me for being able to walk, I guess that prevents me from complaining about handicap people. Give me a break.
Originally Posted By cswnow Since I started this conversation I still need to commment. The main points are the 30 people that get on with the 1 disabled person. The fact that you have 200 + people in line and a handicap person rolls up in WC and is loaded onto te bus. That is WRONG. Skip the politically correct, walk in my shoes stuff, I don't care. I guess we should be penelized just because we aren't handicapped. You and your entourage should wait in the line like everyone else and when you get close to the line I would gladly wait the few minutes for you to load. If someone is sitting in the seat they should move. The readers digest version. Wait in line and you 39 family members should wait in line as well. Either way the policy is wrong, and there are plenty of people who agree.
Originally Posted By disneydad109 I have posted before that the best one that I ever saw was the guy who got out of his electric chair and picked it up when he was unable to get around a shape corner. Yes, he also had a mouth full of food at the time.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Skip the politically correct, walk in my shoes stuff, I don't care. I guess we should be penelized just because we aren't handicapped. You and your entourage should wait in the line like everyone else and when you get close to the line I would gladly wait the few minutes for you to load. If someone is sitting in the seat they should move. The readers digest version. Wait in line and you 39 family members should wait in line as well.>> Honey, the minute you post on this board you're open to any and all comments, whether you like it or not. If you can't take the heat, don't post on the board. You're getting angry because people who are handicapped are given the right to get back to their hotel before you. At most, we're talking about two chair/ECV bound people per bus, because that's all they can fit. TWO PEOPLE. Disney has to make accomodations for these people, and as others said it would be impossible to load the wheelchairs AFTER the bus is loaded. Yeah, the system gets abused, but I have yet to see 30 people board a bus with a handicapped person. And I NEVER rent a car while I'm at WDW. Do you have any idea what truly handicapped people go through? I'm sure you've never even considered it, because you're too busy thinking about yourself. If anyone wants to know what's wrong with the world today, all you have to do is read this thread. People are too busy thinking about themselves and the perceived injustices they're subjected to instead of being kind to their fellow man. SO WHAT if a couple handicapped people load the bus before you?!?! After what my city has been through in the past year, I can't imagine getting angry because a handicapped person boards the bus before me. YOU are being selfish - if you're so tired at park closing that you're going to take issue with a handicapped person boarding the bus before you do, I think you should leave the park earlier. The world is in a sad, sad state when people get mad because someone in a wheelchair boards the bus before they do. This thread is just sad.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<However, when I see a 350-pound person get off their ECV with lanyards jangling and walk over for their turkey legs or chicken fingers and fries, I have a good idea what the problem is.>> Spirit, you seem to have a HUGE issue with obese people. You're always commenting on heavy people in one thread or another.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"The problem is the 300 FAMILIY MEMBERS THAT FEEL THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET ON WITH THEM."<<< >>>"Insensitive is 500 family members getting on the bus with one family member in a wheelchair"<<< >>>"The main points are the 30 people that get on with the 1 disabled person"<<< Gee, cswnow, EXAGGERATE much? HA HA HA! Poor you-I think that you should take Nikki's advice and leave earlier from the parks-sounds like you need extra rest to be nice. >>>"
Originally Posted By cswnow I have no problem taking the heat as I said in the original post. Doesn't bother me in the least. Unless you ARE handicapped you have NO idea what they go thru. You can only guess. Even if you work with them everyday, it's still your best guess no matter what you say. When we left the MK there were well over 200 + people in line waiting for the bus. Well past the other buss loading areas. People had been waiting a long time. NO matter how you want to spin it, going to the front of the line in that situation is wrong. I paid the same money the handicapped person did, there should be no reason why I should leave the parks early. If a handicapped person can spend a day in the park they can spend another 40 min in line. Claiming that I don't know what handicapped people go through or ever considered it is barely worth commenting on. You have no clue who I am, what I do or what I have done. Stop wasting my time. Where you standing in line with me? Who knows. I won't speculate like you. There were 8 wheelchairs because it was quite busy. I got on a bus before they all loaded, but every bus had to wait for them to load. I have no problem waiting for them to load, but they should wait their turn in line. Spare me you PC BS. I would really love to hear you justify the 6-10 family members getting on with them. "The world is in a sad, sad state when people get mad because someone in a wheelchair boards the bus before they do. This thread is just sad." How sad for you that you think the world is so sad, it must be sad going thru life that way, but that's only a guess on my part. I live in a great country where things can be discussed. I had a fantastic time at WDW. It's not DL, but I still had a great time. Rude people and miserable bus system, and I still had a great time. If this thread is so sad, do us all a favor and skip adding your two cents. By every indication here and talking with numerous people in line and on the buses, there is plenty of support. And talking with the dispatcher routing the busses, they are trying to remedy the problem. The new solution might not be to your liking. You might have to leave the park early. I on the other hand choose to maximize my time in the parks with my family.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<How sad for you that you think the world is so sad, it must be sad going thru life that way, but that's only a guess on my part.>> Yesterday five innocent Amish girls were shot because some jerk was getting revenge for something that happened to him when he was 12 YEARS OLD. I come here and you're complaining about the handicapped boarding a bus before you. Yes, I think it is sad that someone could make so much over NOTHING. What happened to being kind to those less fortunate than you? What happened to holding the door open for women and the elderly? What happened to checking in on your neighbor to say hi? If we followed your lead we'd all be complaining because someone bought the last Snickers bar before we could. I've stood in line at the parks waiting for buses in summer and spring, after I've been at the park all day long and I'm sweaty, tired and just ready to fall into a hot bath and bed. I'm not thrilled when they have to load the handicapped on the bus because it takes time, but at the same time I'm not going to snipe at them because they're given the smallest advantage of getting to the front of the line, because their lot in life is a lot worse than mine, despite the fact I live in a hurricane ravaged area, am working two positions and getting paid for one because of a lack of staff and funds due to Katrina, and despite the fact that I'm supposed to be going to act of sale on a condo in four weeks that may or may not be ready. I don't pity the handicapped, but there's nothing wrong with being a little kind to people by letting them board the bus first instead of complaining about it. You're probably the same guy who won't give up his seat for an able-bodied elderly person on the bus. After all, it's not YOUR problem that their old, is it?
