Originally Posted By barboy4 ////Black officers who kill someone kill a higher percentage of Black people than white officers do ////j OK, got it ///WHERE IS THE RACISM???/// .....another part 2 for non sequitur
Originally Posted By barboy4 What I'm getting at is that fact you layed out does not tell us whether there is a racial bias/motivator at play. And for all we know maybe there is indeed racism involved........that is black law enforcement holding inherent biases AGAINST blacks. Yes, I saw first hand during my schooling with black kids who were biased against other blacks. I also remember certain white kids who only wanted blacks for friends.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It is a fact that poor people who have less education and opportunity than well off people commit more crimes. It is also true that Black people are disproportionately represented among the poor. Therefore, isn't it natural, even inevitable, that there will also be a disproportionate number of stops, arrests, and even killings of Black people by police? Instead of concentrating on police killings of Black teens why not try to do something about the actual problem... the need for better education and opportunity in poor areas. Instead of burning down the few businesses you have, try to attract more business to the area so there will be greater opportunity.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Instead of concentrating on police killings of Black teens why not try to do something about the actual problem... the need for better education and opportunity in poor areas. > Those things aren't mutually exclusive. Better education and opportunity? Absolutely. Training police not to see black teens as default criminals and not to see the communities they ostensibly serve as enemy territory so that they take on the appearance of (and are seen as) an occupying army? Absolutely.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Better education and opportunity? Absolutely." With conservative roadblocks in place? Not at the national level.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Sadly, probably not. But I think RT was saying it's something worth fighting and pressuring for (and sometimes that pressure is the only thing preventing things from getting even worse).
Originally Posted By fkurucz It's all about how you dress: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://assets.amuniversal.com/fd898fe056e70132b0a2005056a9545d">http://assets.amuniversal.com/...56a9545d</a>
Originally Posted By barboy4 ///Instead of concentrating on police killings of Black teens why not try to do something about the actual problem... the need for better education and opportunity in poor areas. /// Even though that approach looks to me like a palatable and benign version of the old and tired saying "blame the victim" I still don't like it. Police should do the changing not black Walmart shoppers or 11 year olds.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Even though that approach looks to me like a palatable and benign version of the old and tired saying "blame the victim" I still don't like it. Police should do the changing not black Walmart shoppers or 11 year olds.>> You are totally missing my point. Attention needs to be given to a problem that impacts EVERY Black child living in the city... it will be of far greater benefit than focusing so much attention and outrage on a problem that fortunately impacts a small minority of them. Improving education and opportunity will do more to solve the problem long term that all the police sensitivity training in the world (though that has value too). Frankly, defining it as just a police problem is taking the easy way out.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Sadly, probably not. But I think RT was saying it's something worth fighting and pressuring for (and sometimes that pressure is the only thing preventing things from getting even worse)." Yes. Definitely. We need to improve education and opportunity (isn't this what affirmative action is for?). But racism among cops is also an issue that we can't ignore either.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "You are totally missing my point. Attention needs to be given to a problem that impacts EVERY Black child living in the city.." Sure. Progressives have never not supported this. Conservatives on the other hand... "Frankly, defining it as just a police problem is taking the easy way out." I think this is a straw man. No one thinks that this is only a police problem. But it is partially a police problem. And a pretty serious one.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Absolutely. <Improving education and opportunity will do more to solve the problem long term that all the police sensitivity training in the world (though that has value too).> Well, sorta. The thing is, getting killed is kind of an extreme thing for the victim and his family, so you can hardly blame all the attention it gets. It's the difference between a chronic problem and an acute one. If a young black guy gets an inferior education he probably gets an inferior job and an inferior future, and that's very real. But if he gets killed... Air travel is statistically the safest way to travel. But when a plane crashes it gets a lot of attention and there's a lot of effort expended into figuring out why and how to prevent another incident of the same sort. Terrorism has killed a hell of a lot fewer Americans than drunk driving, the flu (or, Lord knows, ebola), gun accidents, and any of dozens of other things you could mention. Yet after 9/11, we changed our whole governmental structure because it was scary and right in our face. And "scary and in your face" it is for black communities with young men, often unarmed, being killed by police. The chronic problems are real and need to be addressed, but it's just human nature that the acute, sudden "oh my god" moments get more attention.
Originally Posted By Donny The difficult goal is going to be getting this community to value quality education and the children to respect the teachers and property within that school.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The difficult goal is going to be getting this community to value quality education and the children to respect the teachers and property within that school.<< They're already doing that. Your ignorance of the multiple organizations, movements, nonprofits, marches, etc., by black Americans focusing on those very things doesn't mean they aren't happening.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Wouldn't speaking about a community be a broad subject ?> That no community would want to see its young people killed would seem axiomatic. To say that the goal of "getting this community to value quality education and the children to respect the teachers and property within that school" will be "difficult" (as though most would not) gives away the game.
Originally Posted By ecdc This commentary is excellent, and I think sums up the attitudes on this thread nicely. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.alternet.org/most-white-people-america-are-completely-oblivious?paging=off¤t_page=1">http://www.alternet.org/most-w...t_page=1</a> >>The history of law enforcement in America, with regard to black folks, has been one of unremitting oppression. That is neither hyperbole nor opinion, but incontrovertible fact.... And the fact that white people don’t know this history, have never been required to learn it, and can be considered even remotely informed citizens without knowing it, explains a lot about what’s wrong with America. Black people have to learn everything about white people just to stay alive. They especially and quite obviously have to know what scares us, what triggers the reptilian part of our brains and convinces us that they intend to do us harm. Meanwhile, we need know nothing whatsoever about them. We don’t have to know their history, their experiences, their hopes and dreams, or their fears. And we can go right on being oblivious to all that without consequence. It won’t be on the test, so to speak.... The inability of white people to hear black reality—to not even know that there is one and that it differs from our own—makes it nearly impossible to move forward.<< Donny's comment about the community not valuing education couldn't track more perfectly with the lines about not having to know anything about black America.
