Originally Posted By pleiades357 It would cut down on AP purchases, particularly when the APs realize that 365 days mean "day" with extra tickets needed for Halloween, Christmas... Easter... Mother's Day.... ground hog day.... the possibilities are endless... National Maritime Day.... (May 22nd) Q, do these events mean everyone exits the park and lines up to re-enter?
Originally Posted By TP2000 Wow. This is going to be a huge cultural change if it's true, as can be seen in this thread. Manfried<< "Good old Al, use the scare tactics. Oh, and then there are the Disney insiders feeding him true and false information in order to get things their way."<< What part of the info Al provided today about the potential for extra-cost Christmas parties is false? Or are you just assuming someone fed him false information about this for some unknown reason? mickeymorriss1234<< "one from Australasia who said comes to Disneyland ONLY during Christmas time, this is going to screw these people more than it will us because we have a heads up on it if it happens. But all those people they will pay the 101.00 for a park hopper only to find out that they need to spend another 50.00 per person to enjoy Christmas time at Disneyland." Disneyland used to have private extra-cost New Years Eve parties every year. And that was decades before the Internet where you had to call the park, or write them a letter, and ask far in advance what their operating hours are. Now in the year 2010 nearly everyone in the Free World has a home computer or smart phone that can pull up Disneyland.com anyplace on the planet and view the theme park calendar and ticket pricing months in advance. Even if they are visiting from Australasia. I just checked Expedia. The CHEAPEST roundtrip flight on Qantas from Sydney to LAX in December is $2,700 per person, coach class. The cheapest roundtrip from New Zealand is $2,600 per person. Upgrade to Premium Economy and the fare goes up to $4,300 round trip. Business Class is $6,600 round trip per person. If a family of four is paying that amount of money in airfare to visit SoCal on vacation, I'm pretty sure a $50 ticket to a snazzy Christmas party at Disneyland is not going to cancel their USA vacation plans and send them camping in the Outback instead. Quite frankly, they've been doing these Christmas parties in WDW for years, and it works great for them with all those tourists visiting from Ohio and New Jersey and Scotland and Germany and Brazil. No excuse not to know about it in advance when planning your vacation, and buy a ticket to the party if it interests you. Now that Al Lutz has broached the subject, I'm surprised its taken Disneyland management this long to consider this concept.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Al provides the backstory to this. It's the inevitable result of over a million APers. The "premium offerings" will be reserved for people who pay for them, instead of the hordes of APers descending on the park for a few hours in the tens of thousands. The result is that the people attending these events (by purchasing the hard tickets) have a much better time, and the park realizes greater revenue with less headache and hassle." This is the natural end resuly of radically changeing Disneyland's business model to become AP centric. The end results of this new business model have been interesting. Times of year that used to be considered "busy" and best to avoid are now some of the best times to visit as most of the APs are blocked, now it appears that special events will add to the mix. So now we have "regular" Disneyland for the locals and their "cheapo" SoCal APs and "Premium" Disneyland for those who purchase tickets or Premium APs. I expect this trend will continue.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It is a problem. A problem of overcrowding, which isn't sustainable. At some point people will tire of it and stop coming. That's the reason why Halloween (and apparently now Christmas) are being dealt with the way that they are. In the case of Halloween the problem has been solved by having hard ticket events.<< That, plus the extra revenue it generates. Why give something away for freee ifd people are people are willing to pay for it? Let's not forget that Disney is a publicly traded company, which means that sharleholders demand ever increasing profits.
Originally Posted By danyoung >If APers were really an issue, Disney could simply block out certain dates or cut back on the amount of APs they sell.< I think it's important to note that the problem with massive numbers of AP'ers isn't exactly a problem for Disney - it's a problem for anyone (including those same AP'ers) who try to enjoy a totally overcrowded park on any given December day. This new plan is a way for Disney to limit the number of attendees, make the park much more enjoyable, and make a bucket of money at the same time. It's a win-win for everyone, INCLUDING THE AP'ers! No, you don't get to see the big Christmas shows for free. But when you go you'll have about a third of the crowd inside the gates, which makes for a much more enjoyable experience. Sounds like a deal to me.
Originally Posted By mawnck I predict a huge AP outcry the likes of which the world hasn't seen since Light Magic. APs from all over will descend on city hall to inform management (or the poor frontline workers who have the misfortune to represent same) that they will not stand for such treatment and DL will rescind this unfair anti-guest policy immediately if they know what's good for them. Then, just to show 'em, they'll go renew their APs anyway and then get in line for the latest limited edition pins.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It's a win-win for everyone> I wouldn't say everyone. I'm an out of towner whose last several DL visits have been in December. I have no interest in the parade. I like the fireworks, but I'm primarily there to experience DL itself. And I've been there the 2nd or 3rd week of December when it's NOT too crowded during the week, plus lots of nighttime hours (with the short days and open till 11), when DL is at its most magical. So now they're going to close at 6 and if you want nighttime at DL, whether you're watching the parade and fireworks or not, you have to pay extra just to be there? Not really a "win" for me. I attended one of the MK hard-ticket Christmas things. We had a 4-year-old niece with us who really wanted to see the parade and the Christmas-centric things, so it wasn't bad as a one-off. But I do remember feeling vaguely ripped off, and happy that DL, at least, didn't do that. They kept the park open till 11 during the week and midnight on weekends, and you could enjoy Christmas at DL with all those nighttime hours with just your regular ticket or hopper. To me, it would be a shame if they did this. I would understand the economics, but I'd still consider it a shame.
Originally Posted By Dalia3001 "Even if they are visiting from Australasia. I just checked Expedia. The CHEAPEST roundtrip flight on Qantas from Sydney to LAX in December is $2,700 per person, coach class. The cheapest roundtrip from New Zealand is $2,600 per person." Just FYI, that is absolutely true if you try to buy a ticked from Sydney to LA without a lot of lead time, but if you plan way ahead, you can get a round trip ticket, even in December for $950. Still not cheap, and you have to buy your ticket about a year in advance or as soon as they release the days, but it's possible. We've managed it once, but usually can't plan that far in advance. This doesn't refute your argument in anyway, I just thought I would clarify since I happen to have first hand knowledge. : )
Originally Posted By Manfried I predict a huge rethinking of the Annual Passholder program and pricing strategy. Instead of a card that lets you in and able to ride all the rides, it will become like a debit card. It lets you in, but each ride will have a cost depending on demand. Why not? The technology is there to do it.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: While a witch can certainly understand the logic behind Disney Management charging extra for these events, it still comes across like pure greed on their part. They've been getting away with it in Florida for a long time but it may not be so easy for them to get away with it in CA.
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 "Quite frankly, they've been doing these Christmas parties in WDW for years" Yes but they don't make the christmas fireworks show and parade only for the party. Those are done every night period. Disneyland is talking about only doing those for the "party" and leaving us with the Soundsational Parade and RDCT. Now if they did all those shows like normal and did some additional entertainment (maybe even concerts in the fantasyland theater or something like the candle light procession) and a modified Fantasmic or something I would pay up to get less crowds and a really cool entertainment (and free hot coco ) but to take what has basically been a tradition at Disneyland since it's opening and has become a cultural tradition for 15-20 years now and make it a hard ticketed event is just wrong. Create the party, put stuff in it that is worth paying the 50.00 a person for it and leave our fireworks show and parade alone!
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>I predict a huge rethinking of the Annual Passholder program and pricing strategy. Instead of a card that lets you in and able to ride all the rides, it will become like a debit card. It lets you in, but each ride will have a cost depending on demand. Why not? The technology is there to do it.<< Who needs technology to do this? Sounds to me like that would be going back in time. Remember A/B/C/D/E tickets?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It is a problem. A problem of overcrowding, which isn't sustainable. At some point people will tire of it and stop coming.<< This always reminds me of that famous Yogi Berra quote: "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded." The only problem, from Disney's perspective, is that they've got a full park and more people wanting in. I should have such problems. So if they make hard ticket events they get to sell all the APs they currently do plus make a boatload of money by making these special events. And a lot of that new revenue will be coming from folks who currently have APs. To me, that's a problem kind of like the problem of having one vault absolutely jammed with money and having to find an additional vault to fill.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Disneyland is talking about only doing those for the "party" and leaving us with the Soundsational Parade and RDCT. << Or in other words, disney is still providing a parade and fireworks show for all guests not attending the upsell event. But you want TWO different parades and TWO different fireworks shows? And you feel like disney is being cheap if you don't get it? This is that strange sense of entitlement that people speak of with some APers.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance I don't think the sense of entitlement is just limited to APers. I work in the travel business, and when people find out they can't afford something, they become extremely offended and act like you've violated their rights as human beings or something. I think everyone feels entitled to just about everything.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I just had a great idea, a decade or so too late. Instead of DCA, Disney should have built a mirror image duplicate of Disneyland across the esplanade. Then you could have Disneyland Classic and Disneyland Premium, where you could buy an AP or day tickets, pretty much what's there now. Disneyland Premium would be all the same shows and attractions, but it would be much more expensive to get in. People clearly are willing to pay to see the park less crowded, so Disneyland Premium fills that niche. Disneyland Premium would cap daily attendance at a very low number, but be just as profitable as Disneyland Classic. Guests have a choice to make: price vs. crowd size. Would you pay more if it meant shorter lines, easy to get a table at your favorite restaurant, less feeling like a salmon swimming against the tide on Main Street?
Originally Posted By fkurucz " While a witch can certainly understand the logic behind Disney Management charging extra for these events, it still comes across like pure greed on their part." Repeat after me, the mantra of publicly held Corporate America: "Maximize shareholder value" In today's corporate world they (shareholders, along with upper management) are pretty much the only "stake holders" that matter. Which is why we haven't been back sine 2008 and its beginning to look doubtful that we'll be back next year either.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Disneyland Classic: single or multi-day passes, APs, SoCal discount passes, etc. Disneyland Premium: Single or multi-day passes only, at perhaps 3 times the rate of Disneyland Classic, but crowd size is limited to 1/3 of Disneyland's capacity. When that day's tickets are sold out, they're sold out.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The only problem, from Disney's perspective, is that they've got a full park and more people wanting in. I should have such problems." Well I say the situation isn't sustainable because of the traffic and congestion caused by the tremendous flow of people in and out of the property. It was well documented last year that both Halloween and Christmas were a huge burden on the transportation infrastructure in and around DLR. Yes Disney is greedy, but it can't afford to not address what is clearly a guest enjoyment issue.
