Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance You don't think people will be upset that they can't afford Disneyland Money Bags? As opposed to the Poor Mans Disneyland? There would be riots at the gates!
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 "But you want TWO different parades and TWO different fireworks shows?" No I DON'T want TWO different PARADES and TWO different FIREWORKS shows I want CHRISTMAS to be LEFT alone AND only HAVE BELIEVE... IN HOLIDAY MAGIC and CHRISTMAS FANTASY PARADE! Never ONCE did I SAY I wanted TWO parades and TWO fireworks shows. "This is that strange sense of entitlement that people speak of with some APers." Again last time I checked I wasn't asking to be entitled. I do believe my whole argument is for those who are NOT AP holders LIKE MY FAMILY! I am willing to pay extra for this because I can, My family goes for three days in December and having to pay for a 3-day park hopper AND a christmas "party" ticket on top makes me so mad. My mom comes during Christmas time for the parade and the fireworks show, it has been our family tradition for 20 years now.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>You don't think people will be upset that they can't afford Disneyland Money Bags? As opposed to the Poor Mans Disneyland?<< Sure, but Disneyland Classic ain't cheap. It's just less expensive than Disneyland Premium. Okay, we'll change the names. Disneyland Premium and Disneyland Premiumer. Everyone happy?
Originally Posted By hbquikcomjamesl In the first place, I agree with the idea that they oversold the Annual Pass program. Thirty years ago, having a pass was something special, for locals who visited often enough to make it cost-effective. Now, with the lowest level passes, it's a way for Disneyland to channel most of those locals into the slower days. In the second place, during Walt's lifetime, Disneyland was quite probably the best example around of the "Not JUST for Profit" business model (before anybody had even given it that name!): Walt called the people visiting DL "guests" not just in the sense of a paying guest at a hotel, but in the sense that he considered them his PERSONAL guests, and he would spare no expense showing them the best time he possibly could. Remember all the times when he insisted on things like real gold leaf, instead of just a shot of gold-colored bronze paint. I think DL needs to return to that business model, now more than ever. In the third place, why not simply exclude certain days from being eligible for "block-out-day tickets"? If your pass doesn't include certain extremely heavy days, you have to pay full price. In the fourth place, not all passholders are part of the problem. During the quarter-century in which I was a passholder, I knew a few tricks -- like waiting out a train or two, in order to get a cab seat on the Monorail -- but I didn't abuse them, and if an attraction was too choked, I didn't whine, because I knew that I could come back on a less crowded day. Moreover, during the peak of my park attendance (the final years of the MSEP), I frequently spent an evening there, caught The Parade, and perhaps had dinner, and rode one or two attractions that weren't especially crowded. In particular, I wasn't running from one E-ticket to the next, trying to cram in as much as possible into my visit, because I knew I could come back any time. And speaking of the MSEP, when it was announced that a 2-week encore would be run after the October 17th passholder party, I not only didn't whine about it, I looked at the whiners like they were crazy: a passholder party (with special meet-and-greet opportunities, and wandering musicians) is still a passholder party, and if you're a passholder, then you're perfectly free to show up every single night of the encore. Personally, I'd love to see a return to ABCDE tickets. The only reason that major theme parks gave up such an elegant system for "crowd leveling" is that back in the early 1970s, a handful of upstart theme parks did unlimited use, and hyped it heavily (in the case of Magic Mountain, to get people to make the long, boring drive out to the armpit known as Valencia), and parks with ticketed attractions had to match it in order to compete. And as unlimited use tags became more popular, it ceased to be cost-effective to have an additional CM at each attraction checking tags and taking tickets. Somehow, I don't think it's going to happen.
Originally Posted By lesmisfan also another reason why the halloween party works is not only the halloween calvacade and fireworks but they also have many trick or treat stations, that something you can't do for the holiday parties. I know walt disney world does or at least did at their parties give out hot chocolate and cookies but i felt a little ripped off with it because the hot chocolate and cookies weren't even of good quality. so i felt i was paying just to see the holiday parade and fireworks.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The periodic uproar over stuff like this makes me realize the limits of my love for Disney. I've been to DLR at Christmas several times and frankly it wasn't all that "magical". The place was overrun with people and we did maybe 5 attractions that day. It was mildly fun, but it isn't anything that I feel compelled to see or do again. The highlight of the day was a 90 minute wait for Small World Holiday. After that experience I couldn't care less about what Disney does for their holiday events. With that in mind it's difficult for me to fathom what the big deal is if Disney creates ticketed events for some of its Holiday festivities in order to balance out the crowding and increase profitability. I can't even begin to imagine what my experience had been like in the park if I'd had small kids in tow. Why wouldn't parents want something more exclusive that allowed for more enjoyment with your family rather than tackling hoards of people all day long?
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance "Why wouldn't parents want something more exclusive that allowed for more enjoyment with your family rather than tackling hoards of people all day long? " I'd pay just about anything I could afford to not have to have long lines or have to wait an hour or more to see parades or fireworks. With my soon to be 3 year old, it's just not possible to expect him to sit for an hour WAITING for something to start when he looks around and sees all the things he wants to be doing NOW. He also has little patience for long lines, and it becomes increasingly harder to keep him from running under the line barriers. And kids don't like to be packed in like sardines anymore than adults, so they start getting grumpy and crying over every little things and start refusing to take one more step and just plop right down on the ground. That's when Disneyland turns into Disneynightmareland.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I'd pay just about anything I could afford to not have to have long lines or have to wait an hour or more to see parades or fireworks.<< Disneyland Premium. See? It would have been a big hit.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Whenever Disneyland wants to change something, it creates a certain level of flange squeal. (I finally found a way to use that phrase!)
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 "it creates a certain level of flange squeal." LOL!!! You just made my day!
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Disneyland premium wouldnt be a big hit because there would be half as much to do and all the Premiumer people would have half as much to spend their money on.
Originally Posted By dresswhites looking over the walt disney world website..they offer the christmas parade and christmas fireworks the week of christmas. they do the normal year around parade and fireworks the rest the time.. if disneyland did this i would be fine..
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Disneyland premium wouldnt be a big hit because there would be half as much to do and all the Premiumer people would have half as much to spend their money on.<< Exactl-- er, what?
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "Interestingly Al is putting a somewhat positive spin on this new development. Seems that he's in favor of it if it improves guest experience, which it undoubtedly would." I completely agree! Since I visit the resort about once every ten years anyway, and since I am paying about $6000 every time I DO visit, what's another $60 - $70 per night for an uncrowded, lovely party? I would LOVE this if it meant I would not have to put up with tens of thousands of "entitled" APers, ruining my once a decade holiday to Disneyland. BRING IT ON! Hell, bring on extended "pay as you go" uncrowded weekday nights as well!!! As far as I am concerned, the indulged and entitled APers have had free reign for too long now. Time for people who actually are prepared to pay to have some time(and uncrowded walkways)!
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "I know many families that wait till Christmas to go rather than the summer since Christmas is so much more magical. Every time I wait for the fireworks show most of the people around me are from out of state and I had one from Australasia..." Wha........?!? "Australasia"?!? Are you sure they weren't from Molvania? Or Elbonia? What the......?!? "...who said comes to Disneyland ONLY during Christmas time," Well, as I said above, if a person is travelling all the way from Australia, they have already paid THOUSANDS of dollars for airfares and accommodations. An extra sixty bucks for a party is NOTHING(particularly the way our dollar is whipping your greenbacks arse right now!!! WOO HOO!!!!!) "...this is going to screw these people more than it will us because we have a heads up on it if it happens." Not really. You see, they have this new fangled thing these days....you may have heard of it, all the kids are using it.....it's called the "internet". Personally, I use it EXTENSIVELY for all my holiday planning(New Zealnd and Tasmania just in the last eighteen months alone)and that's worked out FANTASTICALLY!!! My feeling is if you just rock up to ANY Disney park(yes, even Half Day Honkers!)and just expect to walk on everything, you DESERVE the nightmare that awaits. Like it or loathe it, Disney parks are now entities you MUST plan for. Like everything in life, the better your planning, the better your end experience! "But all those people they will pay the 101.00 for a park hopper only to find out that they need to spend another 50.00 per person to enjoy Christmas time at Disneyland." Again - that is NOTHING to an overseas visitor that has already paid THOUSANDS of dollars and quite frankly, were I that overseas visitor(and I will be in one year and eleven months)by GOD, if I have the cash, I BETTER get a better experience than the grocery bagger who just arrived after his 6pm shift at Walgreens and through his AP has paid 78c for his two hour "mall visit" to DL! 'nuff said!!!
Originally Posted By wonderingalice We're out-of-town Deluxe AP'ers (currently, anyway. We renewed only my AP for 2011) and our one "for sure" visit each year is in early December before it gets nuts. I do notice that each evening is crazy busy compared to the rest of the day when everything is just about a walk-on. I have to say that we'd be willing to pay for a Christmas party evening one night out of our four or five if it meant smaller crowds for the fireworks. However, I'd also like to see extended park hours for party ticket holders so we could also enjoy a Disneyland After Dark experience rather than being shown the exit right after "Believe."
Originally Posted By debtee I don't see that overseas visitors will have a problem with this. It's been said earlier, we have to spend so much money to come to DL in the first place, purchasing a ticket to join in the Christmas celebrations so to speak, wouldn't worry us! In fact it would make it easier, as you would be guaranteed to actually see everything. This is more of an issue for locals, who have been used to getting it included in the purchase price to DL. I can understand how that is going to make people upset. Is it fact that it's going to happen or just a rumour at this stage?
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin If we look at the economics of the rumored hard-ticketed after hours Christmas party, it makes sense for everyone. AP holder - Let's say a Premium AP holder visits the park 20 different days during the year. A one-day, one-park ticket is currently $76. So that would be $1,520 if the AP did not exist, which equates to a savings of $1,061 ($1,520-$459). Any other level of AP holder has an even greater savings if he/she visits the park 20 times during the year. Even if we throw in multi-day park hoppers or fewer visits throughout the year, the savings of the AP far outweighs the cost of the hard-ticketed holiday event. Non-AP holder - On the other hand, a non-AP visitor would need to buy some form of ticket to enter the park. Using the Halloween parties as an example, the cost for Mickey's Halloween party at DL was approximately $50 for 8 hours of park time. Compare that to $76 for 10 hours of regular park hours on a weekday in October. The non-AP holder could have bought a ticket for the Halloween party at a cost of $6.25/hour compared to $7.60/hour for a regular ticket. And five of those hours during the Halloween party had much smaller crowds, allowing him/her to make better use of the time in the park. All numbers aside, I think it's a great idea for Disneyland to do this. There are plenty of people that are willing to pay money to have a less crowded, more enjoyable evening in the park, while enjoying the added benefits of a hard-ticketed event. Disneyland has no obligation provide a parade and fireworks to everyone, even if they did so in the past.
Originally Posted By SanFran "20,000 or more nightly party ticket sales..........." I thought you were going to complain about something legitimate like what you quoted above. Seriously, another 20k people when the place is packed like sardines anyway. I'd never do the park on xmas. It's been insane anyway.
Originally Posted By iamsally Same arguments: different Holiday. Last time I was all but called stupid for my feelings. Not my opinion; my feelings. My heart is hurting. Disneyland has lost some of its Magic for me. If this happens to the Christmas Season it may be the last straw for me. I do know what capitalism is. I do not need it explained to me. You can even call me the S word and I will not be offended. A dear friend of mine went to the Halloween party (after saying it was wrong) and tried to tell me how necessary it was. I had to stomp my foot and tell him, "You are NOT going to change my mind on this!!" twice, to get him to stop. Yeah, I feel very strongly about this. I am older than Disneyland. I have watched it grow and change over the years. The more commercial it gets the sadder I get. As for how WDW does it. We are the prototype, not them. I know I am not the only one who feels the Magic is in Anaheim. And I am no longer an AP. I will be buying a regualar ticket. And I will still be expected to pay extra for the festivities. I have seen them many many times. It will not spoil my world to miss them. But I get very sad indeed thinking of children in the colonade getting to *see* but not experience this Holiday tradition because their parents cannot afford it. Ever since the Halloween thread three things have been going through my mind. Welcome to The Most Capitalistic Place on Earth. and Welcome to Disney's Capitalistic Kingdom. and my own personal favorite To all who come to this capitalistic place wait for it welcome.
