Originally Posted By Sparrow In my opinion, as long as they are within city codes as far as occupation limits go and they are making money, Disney doesn't care. If someone gets seriously hurt in the park because it's crowded and tries to sue them, then they'll care. I also believe that making the Christmas events exclusive to a ticketed event a week before Christmas has nothing to do with creating a more comfortable experience crowd-wise for guests and has everything to do with Disney seeing how much money people are willing to pay for a Halloween event and going for it.
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 "and has everything to do with Disney seeing how much money people are willing to pay for a Halloween event and going for it." Exactly!
Originally Posted By danyoung >I also believe that making the Christmas events exclusive to a ticketed event a week before Christmas has nothing to do with creating a more comfortable experience crowd-wise for guests and has everything to do with Disney seeing how much money people are willing to pay for a Halloween event and going for it.< Why can't it be both? What's wrong with Disney making a buck, as long as they're giving us something that will be a benefit to most? We keep giving the evil Disney empire the overriding mission of only making money at the expense of all else. If that were the case they wouldn't have put up a billion dollars to fix DCA. Yeah, when it's all done DCA will make Disney more money. But it also will be a much better park that we all can enjoy. What's wrong with that?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The whole vibe for me is one of corporate greed run amok. Which is why I dont go anymore, anytime. The experience has been compromised to the point of being a total waste of money for an out of town guest who has to pony up thousands for that annual trip. I still love Disneyland, but I loathe the constant overcrowding." Exactly.
Originally Posted By Sparrow There's nothing wrong with that and it's definitely a benefit for park guests, I just don't believe guest experience is the driving force behind it. I'm NOT saying Disney is a big, evil, greedy corporation, I'm saying they are a business and a brand and they want to make money. Fair enough, end of story, nothing wrong with that. I'm happy a lot of the changes will make guests experiences more magical and fulfilling but I think it's wishful thinking not to believe profit is the driving force behind the changes.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I just don't believe guest experience is the driving force behind it." It isn't the ONLY driving force, but it has to be something that management must be taking under consideration. It would be irresponsible for them not to.
Originally Posted By Sparrow Hans! You're quicker than me again! I agree and I should have worded it differently. I'm sure they are considering many factors when it comes to making the changes, I just think money is the main one.
Originally Posted By SanFran When people complain about local APers, the locals usually retort with a suggestion that they are just jealous. I suggest that it isn't jealousy as much as it is a sense of disgust. Sure, you pay for an AP so you can get in virtually anytime you want. Does that mean you have to go every week? It's kind of like watching a fat guy at a buffet. Yes, he's entitled to eat as much as he wants, but when you see him pile on the food plate after plate and hours later, finally getting his fill, he waddles out leaving several plates with food on his table, you have to shake your head and question why. I suppose some people are just like that. Recently, a gal pal of mine who builds computers from spare parts and gives them away to people in the community, offered a complete system to anyone who wanted it, free. I needed a computer so I said I would love to have it. I told her, though, that I didn't need the monitor and printer because I already have those. She could use those for building a system for someone else, was my thinking. Now, some people would have just taken the whole thing and stored the extra equipment in the garage or something. This is why communal living doesn't really work unfortunately. There are too many takers and not enough sharers....but it's always been like that and probably always will be. No answers here, just an observation.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I have to say that even if I had an AP and lived within driving distance of the place, I can't see myself going to DLR more than twice a year. Hey SanFran, do you live in San Francisco?
Originally Posted By danyoung >I'm sure they are considering many factors when it comes to making the changes, I just think money is the main one.< Sparrow, now that you say it this way, I completely agree with you. As Hans said, it would be foolish for Disney to try to increase profits at the expense of the guest, as they are in a customer service based industry. We can look at something like these new Christmas parties and say that Disney is doing this to try to make more money, and that is probably true. But the parties are a way for guests to enjoy the parks and the holiday offerings without all the large crowds, and as such is of value to the guest as well. The only down side to Disney is that they risk angering AP holders who have been enjoying these benefits for free. But I think the number of APers who will be so upset that they quit coming to the parks is very very low.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Look at it this way, Disney will make more money in the long term if guests are happy. Overcrowding means that people get frustrated, don't spend as much time and money in the place, and don't return as often. Furthermore, premium pricing means that Disney can afford to keep its operations running at quality levels and fund expensive projects like Carsland and WOC. The combination of manageable crowds and higher revenue translates into bigger profits for Disney and more enjoyment for guests in the long run.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I guess what I should say is SHOULD translate into bigger profits for Disney and more enjoyment for guests in the long run. Obviously it's a delicate balance.
Originally Posted By Sparrow Danyoung, I agree with you 100% that the number of AP holders who will not renew because the event costs extra will be low. I am an AP holder and to me it's still worth it even if I don't get to see all the special holiday events. Yeah it kinda sucks but in the long run, it's my favorite place in the world and to me it's still worth going. And by the way, as an AP holder I would like to respond to SanFran's comment of: "Sure, you pay for an AP so you can get in virtually anytime you want. Does that mean you have to go every week?" Sure. If I want to. What's it to you? I don't feel entitled to anything and I try not respond to posts about AP holders but if you're gonna compare us to fat people at a buffet I feel compelled to. I'll go every day if I want to. So what?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt You are absolutely entitled Sparrow, that is as long as Disney offers the program, but that doesn't change the fact that discounting is not really sustainable for a business like the one Disney is running in Anaheim. If you look at their 4th quarter report DLR increased guest spending due to fewer discounts, but that was offset by increases in operational expenses from DCA's expansion and higher labor expenses. What I think we can surmise from this information is that keeping guest expectations high while giving the place away for less than it's worth is not really something that the company can do forever. With that in mind, along with the overcrowding situation, it makes perfect sense that the company is considering special ticketed events for some of the Christmas entertainment.
Originally Posted By Sparrow Makes complete sense, Hans. I'm also one of those rare local AP holders who think they should do away with the SoCal passes. I've always been a Premium or Deluxe passholder (depending on my budget) and I hate the massive crowds they bring in on Friday nights and during the weeks in the summer.
Originally Posted By SafariRob Great lunchtime reading! Post 24: >>I am an out of Country APer and would rather pay more money than being crammed like a sardine.<< I agree and I think most people do, too. Post 57: >>Would you pay more if it meant shorter lines, easy to get a table at your favorite restaurant, less feeling like a salmon swimming against the tide on Main Street?<< Yes, I would. A less-crowded place is my happy place. Post 66: ^^: >>I've been to DLR at Christmas several times and frankly it wasn't all that "magical". The place was overrun with people and we did maybe 5 attractions that day. It was mildly fun, but it isn't anything that I feel compelled to see or do again. The highlight of the day was a 90 minute wait for Small World Holiday. After that experience I couldn't care less about what Disney does for their holiday events...I can't even begin to imagine what my experience had been like in the park if I'd had small kids in tow. Why wouldn't parents want something more exclusive that allowed for more enjoyment with your family rather than tackling hoards of people all day long?<< Well said. As a parent, I would rather save longer and go less often if it means a less-crowded park. A crowded park with small children is stressful beyond belief. Post 80: >>But I get very sad indeed thinking of children in the colonade getting to *see* but not experience this Holiday tradition because their parents cannot afford it.<< That might be taking it a bit too far. They are at Disneyland, after all! The kids are probably having more fun than stressed-out mom and dad. Post 92: >>The shoulder to shoulder mobs at the fireworks show in the Hub are probably the most obvious example. Such crowding really brings down guest enjoyment and safety.<< Yeah, like a motorized scooter running over a person’s foot! I have witnessed it at the Magic Kingdom after the fireworks. Post 94: >>I agree, there are a few times i have been to DL when it was really crowded and i have asked myself "why am i here?"<< I had a "This place sucks!" moment during my last visit in October...for the first time EVER! Post 95: >>It can be pretty scary when tens of thousands of people are crammed into a very small area and literally can't move a step in any direction. It was pretty spooky for just me - I can't imaging going through that with a family!<< Smart parents choose to sit and wait out the mass-exodus. Post 104: >>...when it's all done DCA will make Disney more money. But it also will be a much better park that we all can enjoy. What's wrong with that?<< Preach it! * * * * * Look, I am the kind of person that tries to avoid crowds at all costs. It means no Disneyland during Christmas time. I simply will not subject my family to those types of crowds. It is not worth it. It means no more Disneyland in October, unless it is the limited-attendance Mickey's Halloween Party. I heard raving reviews about it this year and we are considering it for the family next year. If Disney creates a west coast version of Mickey's Christmas Party, I would welcome it with open arms. It would be wonderful to go and experience all the magic of Disneyland (at night!) and know that there are only 20k people in the park. I do not mind paying extra for it. That is what budgeting is for. Our family is planning a trip to WDW in probably 2013 or 2014. My wife suggested that we spend Christmas there. I almost cringed...until I remembered the specially ticked Christmas events around WDW. That made it seem more realistic. Oh, by the way, I want to comment on Disneyland Premium. I did not make a note of the post number and at this point, I am too lazy to go back and look. It is an absurd concept that would never happen...but a very interesting mental exercise. It caused me to think about how much I would pay for a premium experience. I do not think I would pay triple for a duplicate park, but I might be willing to pay double for half the crowds and/or an attendance cap.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Sure. If I want to. What's it to you? I don't feel entitled to anything and I try not respond to posts about AP holders but if you're gonna compare us to fat people at a buffet I feel compelled to. I'll go every day if I want to. So what?" I totally get a lot of the criticism of APers (and agree with much of it), but that one wasn't one of them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making as much use of an AP if you've got one.
Originally Posted By pecos bill While I certainly agree with a person's right to use their AP as often as they like, I must admit to a certain level of resentment toward those who are very frequent visitors. I understand that to a person living in Southern California, Disneyland must seem like a charming little oasis in a rather bleak urban desert, but to some of us out of town visitors, it seems more like a lifeboat holding twice the amount of people it was designed for. For the life of me, I can find nothing charming about incessant overcrowding. Even Waikiki Beach in December seems semi private compared with Disneyland on any given day, and the hotels are a better deal too. So Disney, until you get these crowds figured out, say a big aloha to my tourist thousands!
