Originally Posted By bayrr326 Right now with HOP, TTT and SM down, MK is a cluster@#$%. We were there today and Mansion, Big Thunder and Splash all went down around the same time, for a lengthy down time and caused a giant mess. The park no longer has the capacity it used too and with a couple of major people eaters down it causes all kinds of problems. It is amazing that a park as big as it is can't handle crowds as well as DL can. There are way too many dead zones. I think my wife said it best today when she said "the park is just not worth it to visit if it is busy". I have no intention of setting foot in it again anytime soon unless it is a slow day.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Paging Mr. MPierce to the thread ... MPierce ... please put down that possum and moonshine and check in! << Actually I'm havin' a RC cola, and MoonPie right now!
Originally Posted By MPierce What Lee Mac has posted in this thread honestly blew me away. I only wish he was able to post more often. His perspective on so many things at TWDC is priceless in my opinion. I still believe the MK could easily gain it's soul back. Bring back all the Mainstreet vehicles, and keep them active from Park opening until the first fireworks show. Step up the Streetmosphere entertainment. The CM's, and the interaction with them acounts for the biggest part of the Magic in all the Parks. Eliminate the strp mall feeling of MSUSA. Change the merchandising, and shops to what the Park was originaly intended to be. Keep the themeing of the merchandising consistent with the themeing throughout the Park Increase custodial, go back to Walt's vision of a prestine enviroment in the Park. This should be a top priority. Concentrate on the landscaping, painting, lighting, and maintainence. This goes hand in hand with a clean Magic Kingdom. Management take a hands on approach. Treat the Magic Kingdom the way it was intended to be treated. Make the day to day experience of the average guest memorable. In other words fill them with Magic, and sprinkle them with Pixie Dust. The real deal, not the hyped up artifical kind that is being spewed forth right now.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Absolutely agree MPierce, if they could do that (and improve the transport), they would get far more of my money.
Originally Posted By MPierce To me it's always been about the show. Transport that guest into an enviroment that he or she becomes immmerced in. Make it so squeaky clean, and pleasing to the eye that they subconsciously fall in love with the place. Give them unique quaint little shops with quality unique merchandise. I don't think anybody wants to spend a lot of money going to WDW to receive a very mundane experience.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, what is awesome about Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen (a key inspiration when Walt designed Disneyland) were those extras. today at the Gardens, the rides are ok. And some of the architecture is dated, but charming. But what makes the place world class and a must see is the extras. For the cost of admission, the gardens are immaculate, clean, all the light bulbs work, there are several live music options all the time - orchestras, puppet shows, marching children, jazz bands, rock n roll, folk etc. The dining is outstanding. And the shops all sell different things. Then they have a fantastic Hans Christian Anderson inspired parade that is a little bit carnival and a little but Tapestry of Nations (presented in both Danish and English, though the English is not needed). They then follow with fireworks and an amazing bellagio/fire show on the lake. It feels a lot like DL (i.e. it is magical) Cost of admission is $15.75 for adults,and if you want to ride the attractions, they are $3.75 each or $37.50 for a pass that lets you have unlimited rides. Although it does not have the jaw dropping attractions or the mastplan layout of the MK, I have a more enjoyable time there. The thing is, the MK could easily fix that if they returned to form. <a href="http://www.tivoli.dk/composite-3351.htm" target="_blank">http://www.tivoli.dk/composite-3351.htm</a>
Originally Posted By MPierce It sounds like a wonderful, and inexpensive way to spend the day. It would seem that Disney is being out Disneyed by a number of places now.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well to be fair, Tivoli is what gave Walt a lot of ideas for his parks. But yep, I was lucky that last time I worked in Copenhagen, I worked it so that I was on a morning flight, and took the afternoon and evening off to enjoy the park. They had a deal at the time that dinner could be combined, so I enjoyed a 4 course meal (1 michelin star), 3 Carlsburgs and the park on company expenses (it used to be very afordable for good food, I am not sure at the mo).
Originally Posted By MPierce The thing here Dave is Walt took a lot of ideas from Tivoli, and applied them to DL. While Tivoli would seem to have maitained the high standards from the past, the MK fails to do so.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What Lee Mac has posted in this thread honestly blew me away. I only wish he was able to post more often. His perspective on so many things at TWDC is priceless in my opinion.>> You got that right. I'd love to hear him weigh on Mermaid/Fantasyland redo ... apparently the fanbois in another magical realm are calling him out and saying it's a done deal ... even worse, they think I'm his biggest supporter/minion. That's very scary. I think he owes the Spirit dinner at Napa Rose for that one! <<I still believe the MK could easily gain it's soul back. Bring back all the Mainstreet vehicles, and keep them active from Park opening until the first fireworks show. Step up the Streetmosphere entertainment. The CM's, and the interaction with them acounts for the biggest part of the Magic in all the Parks. Eliminate the strp mall feeling of MSUSA. Change the merchandising, and shops to what the Park was originaly intended to be. Keep the themeing of the merchandising consistent with the themeing throughout the Park Increase custodial, go back to Walt's vision of a prestine enviroment in the Park. This should be a top priority. Concentrate on the landscaping, painting, lighting, and maintainence. This goes hand in hand with a clean Magic Kingdom. Management take a hands on approach. Treat the Magic Kingdom the way it was intended to be treated. Make the day to day experience of the average guest memorable. In other words fill them with Magic, and sprinkle them with Pixie Dust. The real deal, not the hyped up artifical kind that is being spewed forth right now. >> WOW! Your posts are really impressive today ... maybe I should get me some RC Cola (I don't think you can get it in SoFla anymore).
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'd love to hear him weigh on Mermaid/Fantasyland redo ... apparently the fanbois in another magical realm are calling him out and saying it's a done deal ... even worse, they think I'm his biggest supporter/minion.>> Sorry I've been in Shanghai and Hong Kong for the past few weeks and had long days so not had the chance to respond. I don't know which website you are referring to but what FL redo are they talking about? There are specific plans that have been knocking around for 2 years now for a FL expansion (not a redo - except for the movement of Dumbo and the Tea Cups and the retheming of the Pooh facade nothing else will change) but they can't get traction. The project is north of $500m and there just isn't the desire within WDW Co. to bring it forward. The problem is that the FL expansion will take out capacity from Toontown Faire and therefore if they only do portions of the Master Plan then they won't be adding capacity. The only positive message is that MK needs capacity and management know that - this is a good plan and much of it makes sense as it plays to MK's target audience - families. Two of the attractions in the plans are steller E-Tickets and the third is a good D. They are good plans but no-one wants to commit.
Originally Posted By leemac <<>>and Pooh? ... C'mon. That was an attraction that never should have happened at DL. << FYI Lee is putting to much responsibility of the mess of Pooh on Tony's shoulders. If anyone was at fault it was the late Bruce Gordon; but some feel even pointing things like that out is speaking ill of those who have passed>> Bruce was another fanboi favorite. He had a great knowledge of the history of the Company. Personally I thought he was an average imagineer (and a pretty horrible book designer) but he was well-regarded. I never worked with him as he was effectively sidelined before I got involved with WDI. It is sad that his recklessness in his personal life took his life in the end. Many people have fond memories of Bruce and still talk about him.
Originally Posted By leemac <<As far as Tom, I understand Lee's need to protect his Napa Rose buddy, but Tom is still stinking up the place, now with the new SSE script. Tom was Great at what Tom was realistically NEEDED for. The new SSE narration comes off soo bad that it makes one think that his heart wasn't even in it this go-around. As Tony has his own professional limitations/weaknesses; ones that Lee has generously filled us all in on... Tom was never really suited for anything but cheesy writing.>> I don't eat at Napa with colleagues. It is too far to go for lunch or dinner! Tom isn't a show writer and hasn't been for a long while. Pam Fisher wrote the show script for SSE. Personally I like the new script and the way it flows through the up-ramp. I'm not as keen on the down-ramp but the trade-off is that fact that you have to make it relevant to your sponsor - entwining Bell System/AT&T into SSE is a lot easier than a German conglomerate that makes everything from lightbulbs, medical equipment and trains.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I blamed Michael Eisner, Bob Iger, Paul Pressler and Jay Rasulo.>> Ultimately Paul must take the rap for DCA, WDSP and HKDL. Budgets had already been set in stone for HKDL prior to Paul's departure. He left behind a string of failed projects that are costing the company billions to get right now. That is not the type of legacy you want. I'm still friends with Paul but even he needs to squarely accept that he has adversely affected WDP&R for a generation. A sad legacy indeed.
Originally Posted By leemac <<With respect im starting to question the validity of what Leemac is saying for the simple fact that he has ALWAYS been pro-tom fitzgerald. Now that Tom has been replaced with Bruce and Tom keeps getting pushed out of the limelight LeeMac has started badmouthing WDI and its decisions. >> I am pro-Tom as I've had the opportunity to know and work with him for a long time. I appreciate he has his faults but in the whole I believe he is a decent imagineer. My opinion of Tom has nothing to do with "badmouthing" WDI. Absolutely none. <<Tony Baxter walks the parks, talks with fans, and in interviews and documentaries always shows how knowledgable he is about the parks and the entire Disney company. He really comes off as a hardcore Disney fan.>> If that is your measure of what makes a good imagineer then all the power to you. I don't agree that imagineers should converse with fans - I think it should be the complete opposite. It has a tendency to color your opinion of what is right and what is wrong. It also means that imagineers are forced into opinion. WDI is a collective and should act as such. <<I will easily take Bruce Vaughn over Fitzgerald/Sklar any day of the week. Especially now that I have seen Eddie Sotto give him the thumbs up. >> I have no idea how you know that Sotto gives Bruce the "thumbs-up" but being that he has been gone from WDI longer than Bruce's rise from VP to EVP I don't know how he can reach an opinion. Sotto was a talented imagineer but he was very vocal in his dissent which is why he is perceived poorly by management. I have an issue with a former SFX cameraman like Vaughn being catapaulted from VP of WDI R&D to EVP, Chief Creative Executive just to be Jay's hatchetman. He is entirely beholden to Jay and didn't get the role on merit. That is my beef. I have nothing against Bruce at all - he is a likeable enough individual. I do take offense to his political manoeuvrings.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>It is sad that his recklessness...<< Yes, recklessness is very sad, indeed.
Originally Posted By HMButler1979 ""apparently the fanbois in another magical realm are calling him out and saying it's a done deal ... even worse, they think I'm his biggest supporter/minion."" OMG, the fanbois on that said MAGICal side are COMPLETLY delusional ala Palins supporters on Election Night. They REALLY think MK is gonna pull a rabbit out of the hat ala DLs 50th and Mermaid w/ magically appear for teh 40th and the Fantasyland redo (whatever version) happens also. AND, get this, they posted a link from ThemeParkInsider, that regurgitates EVERY Blue Sky Rumor in the past year. They are so despearte to cling to something that says WDW will blow away Potter and it aint comming. Potters patronous charm will deal w/ fat complacent rats sitting on thier behind in good time.
Originally Posted By HMButler1979 And heres THIS gem to prove Rasulo IS, once and for all, the Disney Cheney. from Mr.Eggz on the Magic site. ""Jay Rasulo thinks that a brand is all that matters (not that he understands how to build one). He'd rather pay a small price tag for a brand like American Idol than a large price tag for a brand like Harry Potter. He has no understanding that one works better in a theme park environment than another...because he has no love for, or interest in, theme parks. In his Strat Planning days he was very open about that. He lobbied against Indiana Jones Adventure and Splash Mountain when he was a strat planner. He has NEVER been in favor of large investments in the parks (only DVC and Cruise Line). If he can't charge a specific price for something, he doesn't like paying for it. Enhancing existing parks does not really fit with his way of thinking. Everest was approved by Eisner and Staggs while he was still in Paris. The only big ticket park improvement he has ever approved was for DCA, and that was done for political reasons. He saw the new CEO Iger (at the time) wanted it, so he went with the flow."" And we wonder why WDW is screwed. Lasseter has obviosuly convinced Iger that DL is "worth it".
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Sorry I've been in Shanghai and Hong Kong for the past few weeks and had long days so not had the chance to respond.>> That's cool. Some of us are just happy you're chiming in. Two questions: how's the weather and is any progress being made on either Chinese front? <<I don't know which website you are referring to but what FL redo are they talking about?>> They are talking about the one that has been tossed out by Honor Hunter and followed up by Jim Hill that has basis in fact ... The one about adding Mermaid from DCA (and presumably soon Shanghai as well ... possibly Paris?) ... as well as facade and area work. I believe the original concept floating was to get ride of Snow White for a dark ride based on one of the 1990s classics and move her to a new family-type Mine Train coaster attraction. Apparently, the it's going to happen legion has gained steam the past few weeks, although no one I trust is saying anything. <<There are specific plans that have been knocking around for 2 years now for a FL expansion (not a redo - except for the movement of Dumbo and the Tea Cups and the retheming of the Pooh facade nothing else will change) but they can't get traction. The project is north of $500m and there just isn't the desire within WDW Co. to bring it forward.>> Very interesting. The figure I heard bandied about was about $350 mil when this first was discussed. I couldn't see them doing that ... half a billion?!? In a park they have largely ignored on projects of any scope since before the 25th anniversary? I so want you or someone to tell me I'm wrong and they've finally woken up and smelled something other than pixie dust. <<The problem is that the FL expansion will take out capacity from Toontown Faire and therefore if they only do portions of the Master Plan then they won't be adding capacity. The only positive message is that MK needs capacity and management know that - this is a good plan and much of it makes sense as it plays to MK's target audience - families. Two of the attractions in the plans are steller E-Tickets and the third is a good D. They are good plans but no-one wants to commit.>> So ... this means it isn't happening? Or you don't know? Or you can't say? It just seems so contrary to what management has done ... they believe MK 1997 is fine for 2000, 20003, 2006, 2009 etc ... Hence, a very stale product that gets by on nostalgia for its E-Tickets. Capacity keeps dropping as they kill parts of the park off, though ... and I heard the other day they had Space, TTA, HoP, Splash, Thunder and Mansion down ALL at once. ... Must have been fun working at Guest Relations. So, Lee, what's the scoop?
