Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I could write a book on this particular topic, Spirit, but ultimately Michael did defer more decision-making to Paul once he replaced Judson (who Michael didn't like at all).>> I have heard that from many folks (the Michael/Judson dynamic). I don't get it at all. Judson was an interesting guy ... and a talented musician too. But if what you're saying is true, you're basically saying that Michael set Paul up as the fall guy because anyone with a pulse could have seen Paul was in over his head in the theme park division. Unfortunately, people wound up dying at DL because no one got that you couldn't simply throw the book out to prop up the company's stock. <<Please don't take this as patronising - it honestly isn't meant to be - but I think you don't fully understand how long it takes to get a park design up and running. HKDL was effectively all done by the time Jay took over the '02. >> I do understand that. That's why I am always getting on you about how the HKDL that was announced in 1999 wasn't what was delivered in 2005. I am still trying to figure out how 50-60% of the park simply disappeared from announcement and early design to reality. Are you saying this was all Paul's doing? That Michael the Mico-manager was so busy trying to save his ass that he didn't say 'where the (blank) did those 15 attractions go?' <<It is even harder when you are dealing with a partner - and a souvereign partner to boot - you just can't squeeze out more once they have agreed to the existing budget. It is like turning the Titanic around on a dime. You need to get your master planning done up front. Once Wing Chao's views on the lack of attractions and the poor attraction mix had been ignored Paul ploughed forward. You have to remember that Timur Galen was the lead delivery executive on the project and his impact is still being felt. John Verity was left to pick up the pieces and just executed what he was given.>> I'd rather not hear Timur's name again! I still can't see how the HK SAR was happy losing two lands and numerous signature attractions AFTER the announcement. Something doesn't add up ... it seems like all bait and switch. And as someone who actually really likes HKDL, all I can think is if they had built the place as planned, it would have been an incredible park from Day 1 with a different vibe than any other MK. Of course ... I have some vague recollections of talk of having outsiders like McD's and even Planet Hollywood having a presence in the park too!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That wouldn't be fair to Eddie. I have never worked with Eddie nor do I know him personally but one of his closest friends at WDI is also a mutual friend so I'd want to do nothing to tarnish his legacy at WDI - particularly as he conceived EDL's stunning Main Street. All I will say is that Eddie was seen (rightly or wrongly) as a dissenting voice within WDI and therefore his vocal criticisms whether founded or not were poorly received. Their loss IMHO.>> Fair enough. I do intend to add some of his thoughts to this thread (if I can't convince him to drop in himself) soon!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The FL Expansion is all about meeting the mission statement for MK - family adventures (I'm paraphrasing). Every park has a mission statement now and that is how future development is being driven. The MK project involves a lot of infrastructure moves (existing FL and Toontown Faire), redesigning of the current Pooh area, an entirely indoor facilities for the FL expansion and three attractions - one of which I haven't heard anyone mention which is interesting and makes me wonder where the leaks come from. Quite frankly the third attraction is the most exciting for me so it makes sense that it is that one that won't happen!>> The attractions that have always been listed by the bloggers are Mermaid clone, B&B (not the soap opera) swapping out SW and a Dwarfs Mine train coaster. Apparently something called the Theme Park Insider is reporting the news ... they are adding in a glorified Princess Meet-and-Greet (no groping with princesses) ... that's where the fanbois are saying the stuff is coming from. This sounds to me like a reworked Pixie Hollow from DL ... although I do recall hearing rumors of a Tink-themed dark ride ... could this be what Leemac is talking 'bout? <<The show building will be huge. Guests have asked for more indoor experiences so the decision to create an indoor Toontown experience at MK should be a no-brainer>> Yeah. But this is the exec 'leadership' team that thought cutting down all the mature trees in the MK was a smart decision ... not like it's hot and humid and hellish a good six months of the year in Central Fla ... and this is the group that thought closing multiple attractions and retail and dining without replacement was fine ... and this is the group that decided why let people shop in AC comfort when we can move retail outdoors like a flea market. Again, they are getting paid big bucks by average American standards to make imbecilic decisions. So, why should it surprise anyone that only now they realize that people might not want to bake in the sun?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You're always so negative. Why do you even post here? You should be banned or deported!>> I should be shot too ... or at least made to sit through eight hours of Hannah Montana. <<The precedeing post has been a reinactment of a typical response to Spirit.>> I've said it before, but it bears repeating ... they love me over there, they really, really love me!
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<Yeah. But this is the exec 'leadership' team that thought cutting down all the mature trees in the MK was a smart decision ... not like it's hot and humid and hellish a good six months of the year in Central Fla ... and this is the group that thought closing multiple attractions and retail and dining without replacement was fine ... and this is the group that decided why let people shop in AC comfort when we can move retail outdoors like a flea market.>> But aren't the odds that eventually they will get something right? We can hope.
Originally Posted By hopemax > I do intend to add some of his thoughts to this thread (if I can't convince him to drop in himself) soon! < That would be so awesome. I loved reading the stuff he wrote for themedattraction.com way back when.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Im very confused now. Some people, including disney officials, are basically confirming Little Mermaid and at least a limited Fantasyland redo are coming soon but the other half people like Leemac say the plan is still early in bluesky design and wont happen. Which is it??
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But aren't the odds that eventually they will get something right? We can hope.>> What's the saying about even a blind squirrel can sometimes find a nut? I want nothing more than to sit here typing praises for management because they got it right ... but after a decade of disappointment (mostly) it's impossible to give them the benefit of any doubt.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Im very confused now. Some people, including disney officials, are basically confirming Little Mermaid and at least a limited Fantasyland redo are coming soon but the other half people like Leemac say the plan is still early in bluesky design and wont happen. Which is it?? >> Where do you see confirmation? I sure don't. I see a fan site talking about something some exec who talked to some DL CMs allegedly said. And even that didn't confirm anything other than the fact Mermaid is being designed, which it obviously is for DCA ... Also, Leemac didn't say it would NOT happen, just that it wasn't approved as of now and was blue sky. In other words, both of those statements could well be true at the same time. You're spending too much time with the pixie dust crowd. It can dull your senses according to CNN.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 > I do intend to add some of his thoughts to this thread (if I can't convince him to drop in himself) soon! < <<That would be so awesome. I loved reading the stuff he wrote for themedattraction.com way back when.>> Ask and you shall receive ... When I asked Eddie his opinions he was very upfront and said he hadn't been to MK in years. He also said he believes the park still has lots of 'magic and power' but that the changes that have happened have made it a more uneven experience. So while you may have something great like the Mansion upgrade, it doesn't negate say selling princess stuff in Liberty Square. I largely agree with Eddie's opinions (although I think it's safe to say I've spent more time in the park over the past decade as they have successively taken it apart a bit at a time) To quote him a bit ... he went on to say "The biggest threat that is a "soul killer" in my mind is something beyond WDI's direct control, the retail and food experience. Being a Main Street guy, I think the area that has "lost it's way" in most every park to a degree is Main Street (or DHS blvd.). MS needs the retail to tell it's story because there is no theme attraction. When a land becomes a "Disney Mall", you've lost the sense of discovery, as you eventually assume the products will be the same parkwide, so you don;t even poke your head in the stores. I was let down by the MK in this respect. I wanted to see more thematic depth in the retail variety. Liberty Square was another land that used to have much more in this way, but has a few token thematic items now (I'm not talking about a minuteman mickey plush either). And where are the Antiques? Any mall owner will tell you that shopping is a big form of entertainment in itself. I love the WDW MK, and to me overall it still has it's soul (I'm not burned out on it either), but a richer retail and food experience is the easiest and cheapest way to add steroids." Hopefully, we'll have more from ES later on. But I'd love to share an MK visit with the man. I think it would be fascinating to see things through his eyes.
Originally Posted By MuscleShoalsMadman I am lookin for Jeb. Do any of yall go by that name around these parts?
Originally Posted By MuscleShoalsMadman you boys never mind me cause I must be in the rong parts. Im fixin to cut out of this town right fast anyway
Originally Posted By Skellington88 The rednecks on that other Disney site are saying that major announcements are coming in October...
Originally Posted By leemac <<Where do you see confirmation? I sure don't. I see a fan site talking about something some exec who talked to some DL CMs allegedly said. And even that didn't confirm anything other than the fact Mermaid is being designed, which it obviously is for DCA ... Also, Leemac didn't say it would NOT happen, just that it wasn't approved as of now and was blue sky.>> Completely possible but I can only go by our track record. TSMM was the fastest major attraction to be greenlighted in recent history - and that still months (and over two years from the "go" to build out). Management loved TSMM and it was pitched very well by Tom and the two creators Kevin Rafferty and Rob Coltrin (the latter is an exceptional blue sky conceptualist). I just don't see Mermaid jumping from Blue Sky to Approved in that time but it will depend on the next executive committee meeting in the summer - if it gets on the agenda then it has every chance. However I'd be disappointed if they only approved Mermaid which was a part of a much bigger project and I'm certainly that the placement of Mermaid solus would result in taking the expansion pad that would have been the entrance to the new FL expansion. I should add that a lot will depend on the Q3 numbers - they are looking horrific at the moment so unless June becomes a stellar month expect to see revenue down substantially at WDP&R although they could hold on to occupancy rates (which will demonstrate that Revpar is in the toilet). That said every single business unit will be down - especially the Studios where I'm told Dick Cook is fighting for his job. If G-Force isn't a hit I'd expect to see him retire in the fall. I've even heard Ed Catmull being touted as the new studio head for live action and animation. Dick should never have kicked Touchstone into being a second tier wing of the Studios. Disney needed them to help defray the enormous fixed costs of running a studio. And it is right for Disney to be making entertainment for everyone - not just families. I'd expect that course to be reversed if a new studios boss comes in.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> The rednecks on that other Disney site are saying that major announcements are coming in October... << There aren't any Rednecks at that other site. We're all here. Do you have a problem with that?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<That said every single business unit will be down - especially the Studios where I'm told Dick Cook is fighting for his job. If G-Force isn't a hit I'd expect to see him retire in the fall. I've even heard Ed Catmull being touted as the new studio head for live action and animation.>> YES!! Best tidbit I've come across in weeks! Thanks, leemac, for making my day. <<Dick should never have kicked Touchstone into being a second tier wing of the Studios. Disney needed them to help defray the enormous fixed costs of running a studio. And it is right for Disney to be making entertainment for everyone - not just families.>> Absolutely! <<I'd expect that course to be reversed if a new studios boss comes in.>> From your fingertips to you-know-who's ear, leemac. Here's hoping!
Originally Posted By DlandJB Goodness Lee, did they not have you sign a confidentiality agreement when you went to work for them?
