Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Would you be putting those keystrokes down just like that when you were sitting in your E ticket attraction sweating on your laptop waiting for the AC to cool down your room so you could go to sleep? >> <<Let me get back to you after my next trip. I've heard some say that the temperature thing was discontinued because of complaints. I would like to hear from someone who has stayed at a DVC resort lately.>> We had one at another magical site (hope you can read that sarcasm right now because my pixie dust quotient for 2009 was reached in March!) He just returned from the new villas at DAK Lodge and it was an issue. He said that at SS there was a way to override it, but not the new place. I'd be phoning and emailing anyone and everyone at Disney and maybe try some news folks at say USA Today, NY Times or the like. Disney will only reverse itself if it sees a PR disaster on its hands, so I'd make one.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have the Birnbaum for WDW for '89 and 2002. Also an "Unofficial" WDW guide for '89. The unofficial guides are interesting reading, devois, as they are, of all the corporate-speak. The two '89 guides are full of haunting "previews" of the shiny new Disney-MGM Studios. Makes me sad to read about it now...>> I actually have both of those ... the '89 guide was when I was still buying annually. The '02 guide cost me a dollar at a CM sale in 2003! But you wanna hear sad, I'll try and quote some items from the 1985 one (since it's handy) on this thread sometime soon. But I'm still waiting to hear more inside dirt from Leemac anyway ... he tells enough and I might buy a subscription to his rag! ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think RoadTrip is exactly the guest that Disney has built their business model on. A person who sees WDW as one whole instead of lots of little entitites. And RoadTrips thoughts about new attractions is how Disney decides when to build and where.>> I know of some great places to dump a tourist's body ... the gators will take care of the rest! ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK ... my hear ain't in it ... I just dreamt of 401 soulless Dalmatians telling me they'd love to see something new at MK!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I save my shopping for Epcot where you can still get unique merchandise in the Showcase.>> That much is true, but it still has been dumbed down from what it was in the 80s and 90s. But I do spend in that park. <<We also have started to collect prints from the Art of Disney stores. >> I largely don't. I have too much Disney 'stuff' to begin with ... so it really has to be special. Right now, I have stuff in closets and even storage that could be on walls, so I'm not looking to add. <<Frankly the 'souvenir merchandise', whether from today or 15 years ago, just doesn't hold much interest for us any more. After a while you already have one of everything so what's the point of buying more?>> Well, that's just the point ... when everything is Disney branded crap, I don't. But when they had unique shops that weren't all Disney ... all toon'd merchandise ... well, you could buy plenty of things. And I did. I don't care how nice the newest Mickey sculpture or WDCC figure or Nemo litho etc is ... I don't want it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<<<I tend to look at WDW as a whole rather than a collection of 4 parks. >> This is what scares me even more ... Remember my Four Stale Parks: One World thread?>> I really don’t know why. Sorry, I don’t specifically remember that one thread. But for me, when our visit is always at least 7 days, I look at my overall WDW experience, not the experience at any one park. I can certainly say that Epcot is my favorite park, but that does not mean I dislike the other parks. <<<<To me the resorts themselves are a very major part of what I enjoy about a trip to WDW. To me the additions of Saratoga Springs, AK Villas and Contemporary Villas are at least equal to the opening of three new "E Tickets".>> That's just pathetic with all due respect, Tripster.>> That is your opinion. To me a new “E Ticket” is 3-4 minutes of fun I might experience several times during a visit. I spend a whole lot more time in the resorts than I spend riding “E’s”. I love Expedition Everest. But overall, the enjoyment I’ve received from Saratoga Springs exceeds the enjoyment I’ve received from EE. <<People don't visit WDW to see new timeshares. You can't seriously suggest otherwise.>> I do. <<<<The recent additions of Expedition Everest, Mission Space, Soarin' and Toy Story Midway Madness in the other parks more than satisfy my need for something new at WDW.>> What about the guests who only visit MK? Or maybe one other Disney park?>> Why the hell would they do that? <<And who really cares? MK is stale and tired and that reality supercedes any argument regarding what may or may not be added elsewhere.>> The MK is classic. As long as they don’t close attractions like Pirates, Big Thunder Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, Small World, Space Mountain and TTA I’ll be happy. Those attractions will never be stale or tired. <<That's the point there, Trippy. And I know you get it. MK isn't supposed to be about YOUR nostalgia for past visits. It's not supposed to be the same (or worse) everytime you visit. Do you think that's what Walt had in mind? Do you think that's what the amazing men and women at WED who built the place and added to it for decades had in mind? That it would be a place that grew stale because Disney could just skate by on rep?>> For MY enjoyment it is about nostalgia. I frankly don’t care what anyone else thinks. They aren’t paying for my trip. I am. <<<<The AK without Beastly Kingdom is strictly a daytime park but that is fine with me. The 5 PM close gives me just enough time to enjoy dinner in the World Showcase and Illuminations. That is where I want to be most evenings anyway.>> You do know it isn't all about YOU, right?>> When it comes to what I WANT FROM WDW IT IS ALL ABOUT ME. Just as when it comes to what you want it is all about you. I have no problem with that.
Originally Posted By CaptainMichael <<The MK is classic. As long as they don’t close attractions like Pirates, Big Thunder Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, Small World, Space Mountain and TTA I’ll be happy. Those attractions will never be stale or tired.>> This post scares me. Out of all the things you listed, only HM and BTM are not stale or tired. The rest need alot of work IMO. If you're happy with the state of those attractions and the addition of Saratoga Springs...then, wow...You should go join that "magical" place. You'd fit right in with jt04.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Captain... that is why I will never agree with the fanbois. I believe those attractions are classics and should be MAINTAINED, not ENHANCED. Did they improve Carousel of Progress by putting in the new last scene that not only clearly does not fit with the others, but is also now sadly out of date? No, they did not. Did they improve the Tiki Room by putting in those loudmouths Iago and Zazu? No they did not. Did they improve Space Mountain by turning on the lights? No they did not. Did they improve the Hall of Presidents by adding George Bush? No they did not. ;-) The only ENHANCEMENT I can think of where the AFTER is better than the BEFORE is Pirates of the Caribbean. I thought they did a really great job with that. But given the track record, are you really willing to take the chance of messing with the other classics?
Originally Posted By Disney and beyond The Recent HM Enhancment was pretty good. Though Honestly not much changed themeatically. At least there was no Eddie Murphy...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The Recent HM Enhancment was pretty good. Though Honestly not much changed themeatically.>> Yes, it was well done. I don't know that it added a great deal, but it didn't detract from it either. Mainly it was nice to see everything spruced up a bit and working properly. I have major heebie-jeebies when it comes to spiders, so I really liked replacing the spider with the Escher staircase.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Mainly it was nice to see everything spruced up a bit and working properly.<<< I'd like to see that, sadly on our last visit it was not the case for most attractions.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I don't know the numbers and this is just a guess, but I'd say the vast majority of DVCers are say 1999 to today types. I don't know how many realize they're getting the same old recycled magic year after year ... Many of them are likely still in the honeymoon period. < since OKW & BW sold our long before 1999 and if I remember my numbers corrected there were at least 35,000 families before 2000 - I'm thinking this is flawed logic. Most people I Have met @ OKW are close to my age ( maybe up to 10 years younger but not much more)- and go back a ways with the Mouse.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >>And it appears that this is what they're going to return to DL next year for its 55th ... and when last I heard (Leemac or anyone else feel free to correct me) they had cancelled any plans for a new parade for the anniversary.<< To be fair to Disney, tons of fans wanted the ELP back at Disneyland for years now so im sure fan demand played a part in the decision. They could have been scared of another Light Magic situation.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 "Captain... that is why I will never agree with the fanbois. I believe those attractions are classics and should be MAINTAINED, not ENHANCED." I think when most of us on here talk about being enhanced we mean that the WDW versions should be brought up to the same level of quality as the DL ones. Peter Pan and Snow White at WDW are a joke compared to the current state of the ones at DL. The dark rides there have been constantly updated and improved over the years while the MK ones are stuck in the 70's. And don't get me started about the half-assed POTC refurb. Imagine how awesome WDW's one would be if we would have gotten new lighting and the digital sound system that DL did.
Originally Posted By tonyanton Spirit...I'm interested in see what you highlight from the '85 Birnbaum guide...I have a copy as well (from an '85 trip) and it's amazing to see how much has changed in terms of shopping and dining (including at the resorts). I know my family did a character breakfast at the Empress Lilly in late '83, the only other restaurant I can think of would be Chef Mickey's, also at the Village, though that may have been a bit later.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>That's just pathetic with all due respect, Tripster.>> <<That is your opinion. To me a new “E Ticket” is 3-4 minutes of fun I might experience several times during a visit. I spend a whole lot more time in the resorts than I spend riding “E’s”. I love Expedition Everest. But overall, the enjoyment I’ve received from Saratoga Springs exceeds the enjoyment I’ve received from EE.>> I get that point to some extent. I love just chilling at the Lodges and the Poly. But if there were no parks, no E-Tix, would you still enjoy SS so much? More importantly, do you think most people would travel to Orlando to spend time at a Disney timeshare if there were no parks to visit? We both know that answer. <<People don't visit WDW to see new timeshares. You can't seriously suggest otherwise.>> <<I do.>> No. I think what you mean is DVCers travel to WDW to use their points at new resorts. I don't think the typical onsite or off-site guest decides at 3 p.m. 'hey kids, let's leave EPCOT so we can go trudge around the Beach Club Villas'. <<<<The recent additions of Expedition Everest, Mission Space, Soarin' and Toy Story Midway Madness in the other parks more than satisfy my need for something new at WDW.>> What about the guests who only visit MK? Or maybe one other Disney park?>> <<Why the hell would they do that?>> Because everyone does Disney differently. I think many people would be shocked by the way I 'visit' ... <<The MK is classic. As long as they don’t close attractions like Pirates, Big Thunder Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan, Small World, Space Mountain and TTA I’ll be happy. Those attractions will never be stale or tired.>> I love those attractions, but PoC has some major 'issues' after its recent Sparrowization. And let's not forget what condition Mansion and Small World were in for years before their refurbs. A condition that Pan and Space are in currently. Space is either laughable or sad depending on how you view it. <<That's the point there, Trippy. And I know you get it. MK isn't supposed to be about YOUR nostalgia for past visits. It's not supposed to be the same (or worse) everytime you visit. Do you think that's what Walt had in mind? Do you think that's what the amazing men and women at WED who built the place and added to it for decades had in mind? That it would be a place that grew stale because Disney could just skate by on rep?>> <<For MY enjoyment it is about nostalgia. I frankly don’t care what anyone else thinks. They aren’t paying for my trip. I am.>> OK. But that comes off as selfish and snarky. I agree that so long as you enjoy yourself that's the most important thing to you ... obviously, I feel the same about my visits. But as a fan, industry follower and shareholder, I also try and view things from a prism of what's good for everyone ... or at least most. <<When it comes to what I WANT FROM WDW IT IS ALL ABOUT ME. Just as when it comes to what you want it is all about you. I have no problem with that.>> Why do I think we agree completely, yet you totally missed my point?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Captain... that is why I will never agree with the fanbois. I believe those attractions are classics and should be MAINTAINED, not ENHANCED. >> Well, maintaining should always come first ... but after that what's wrong with enhancing? Plussing was something that started in Walt's day and continued until TDO's exec 'leadership' team decided it wasn't cost-effective to put quality first. <<Did they improve Carousel of Progress by putting in the new last scene that not only clearly does not fit with the others, but is also now sadly out of date? No, they did not.>> But that last scene was fine when it debutted 15 years ago ... the thing is you can't have an attraction based on PROGRESS that ends in near-recent past scene that still feels as old as wearing styles from the early 1990s today (wearing my Don Johnson Miami Vice wardrobe as I type that!) <<Did they improve the Tiki Room by putting in those loudmouths Iago and Zazu? No they did not.>> That wasn't an enhancement. That was a 'let's rip the soul out of a classic and make it hip with our toons' ... they could have kept the original and reworked it and actually enhanced it. <<Did they improve Space Mountain by turning on the lights? No they did not.>> I don't think they turned the lights on so much as the facility started to crumble in the mid-90s and Disney just sat on back and let it! <<Did they improve the Hall of Presidents by adding George Bush? No they did not. ;-)>> Oh, now that's fighting words ... where's old man Pierce? Oh yeah, starting to open a Houston branch of the Palin 2012 campaign! ;-) <<The only ENHANCEMENT I can think of where the AFTER is better than the BEFORE is Pirates of the Caribbean. I thought they did a really great job with that. But given the track record, are you really willing to take the chance of messing with the other classics?>> I'd disagree there. I think they did a fantastic job in Anaheim, but not in Orlando. There wasn't enough room and it just feels stuffed and forced ... the fact that to get it open as quickly as possible (per Phil Holmes and Erin Wallace) you didn't get any upgrades beyond the new AA's ... so you have 1973 sound bleeding in to 2006 sound. To me, it's a mess. Mansion was done right. SW was also done right. And it looks like HoP was too. But not PoC.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<since OKW & BW sold our long before 1999 and if I remember my numbers corrected there were at least 35,000 families before 2000 - I'm thinking this is flawed logic. Most people I Have met @ OKW are close to my age ( maybe up to 10 years younger but not much more)- and go back a ways with the Mouse.>> Yeah, but that's two resorts (one of which expanded a few years back). WLV, BCV, SS, AKLV, now treehouses at SS, BLT ... those have all come since ... I gotta believe you're looking at far more since 1999. You could be right, but it just on the surface wouldn't look that way.
