Originally Posted By hopemax At this point, I just want Disney to be efficient. If Disney is going to be focused on the bottom line, then do that really well. Don't shut down a popcorn cart in the hour leading up to a parade, leaving the one open cart having to deal with twice as many customers which frustrates a bunch of people in line so they leave. One time, in 10 minutes I watched 20 or so people attempt to get popcorn/drink at the Studios only to balk at the size of the line. Certainly, they could have made up the hourly cost of having 2 people manning it (one to do money, one to fulfill the order) or have opened the other stand, what 30 ft away. Have an inventory system that is robust enough that if a guest asks, "Do you have X?" and the answer is no, the CM can easily tell the guest where he can go. Why is it that my Dad can go in an auto parts store for a $3 part, be told they don't have it, but if he comes back at 4 they will have it, but Disney CMs don't even know what is in their own store half the time? Keep an eye on the staff. You'll have 3 people working an area and what it turns to be is one person running around like a crazy person while the other 2 are doing their best to help absolutely no one and chat about their weekend in the corner. And I've mentioned the poncho incident before. All registers capable of selling ponchos, only one register doing it, because the photo sellers were taking the opportunity of the ride being down because of the rain for a siesta. Or how about this. My parents are pin traders. In Jan, I was with my Dad as he tried to find a couple of pins that had come out in Dec, but he didn't pick them up then. They were nowhere to be found. He was willing to pay the regular price (minus, the discount of course). But they weren't available for sale. You would think that would mean they were sold out. Nope, at the CM pin party in May, he found them. So he gladly bought them at 75% off. He says this happens all the time. Disney could have had a sale for $7, but instead they got one for $2.75. And if there was a regular guest walking around that was looking for that pin too, they would have sold it for $10.95, instead they got nothing. Money on the table that Disney apparently doesn't want. As many complaints about Walmart as there are, I've never gone into Walmart and said, "Why don't they have more lanes open?" I've seen long lines, but even then they had many, many lanes open. And -em has said they know where their merchandise is.
Originally Posted By hopemax > Frontier Trading Post has become a giant pin outlet, because we all know if there's one thing MK lacks would be places to pick up ten-cent pins for $12.98 < You might be happy to know that there is discussion that the pins will be leaving the Trading Post. Course, the rumored landing spot is Big Al's, so that might not make you happy.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well, DLP and WDW closed the canoes at roughly the same time. In DLP, there was at least the excuse of language issues and awfully behaved guests that would try to tip the canoes or splash everyone. What was the excuse at WDW?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Hopemax - staggered openings, miscalculations, bad cast members (from poor management) make the magic that used to exist disappear.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It is a fine line between enhancing profitability and brand degradation. >> Absolutely. And I am all in favor of The Mouse making as much as he can ... it is the American Way, after all. And I have been a shareholder for many years. One might say the line was crossed in the mid-late 90s and the result has been this downward spiral that's just a vicious cycle. Where does it all end? The MK is falling apart, stale and tired. It has another milestone birthday coming up in a little over two years and you've said nothing is coming to the park in the next five. To me, they've made the MK into another Orlando outlet mall with some nice attractions thrown in. <<Ultimately the blame lies with Burbank management and in particular Jim Hunt. HR decided that fiscal measures for STIs were the most appropriate and therefore that ensures that local managers are focused on delivering on those targets. There are now fewer and fewer non-financial KPIs in the STIs (like guest satisfaction) and so I can't blame local managers for trying to maximise their take-home. I've always maintained that WDP&R could be run more efficiently and more profitable - the focus on delivering results just wasn't there during Paul or Judson's reign. However you need to balance that with the ability to maintaining and even enhance the show.>> Of that, I have no doubt at all. It wasn't like the MK was a giant money-pit from say 1971-1996. It was a vastly profitable enterprise. But it also delivered a very high quality product ... I always go back to the retail analogy. MK was like Nordstrom. Now ... it does feel like WalMart. It could be at least Macy's. <<<<My patience and desire to work with WDW Co. ended years ago and I have no intention of returning to central Florida until management is replaced - wholesale.>> WOW!!! You almost sound like fed-up fanboi! I would hope the fact voices like mine (and now yours) are being heard loud and clear from Burbank to Emeryville to Glendale to Orlando.>> I'm curious if you really won't return to WDW. Are you speaking from a work standpoint, a Disney-lover standpoint or both? << I'm no fanboi.>> Ultimately, we all are! <<There are plenty of us that are frustrated with the way things are going but it is mandated from senior management. I've always maintained that WDP&R can do what it likes providing it doesn't impact WDI. In the '90s WDI and WDA were hand-in-hand driving change at the parks. Now WDP&R drives everything and WDI is nothing more than a service provider. It is devastating to those who have dedicated their lives to Imagineering.>> Not surprising with what I have heard, gathered ... and even surmised with Marty and Wing jumping ship now. <<I was hopeful that Bruce Vaughn would be able to defend WDI's place at the table. Instead he has become Jay's hatchetman within 1401F. WDI's influence has been chipped away until it is literally a shell of its former self. I know most fanbois and observers have little positive to say about Tom Fitzgerald but he would NEVER have allowed this to happen under his watch.>> I am not a fan of Tom, I have always stated that. I've also said that I felt the way Tom and Tony Baxter had their cliques contributed to a toxic mix. Has Tom been neutured by the new structure? I thought he basically was sent to Paris after the restructuring. <<He resolutely defended WDI (often to his own detriment) and did the best possible job to ensure its independence from the rest of WDP&R and Burbank. He had little say in what could be done in the parks in terms of new production but he was able to find a way to "enhance the classics" as WDP&R management weren't interested in enhancing attractions like Haunted Mansion at MK or getting new movies into World Showcase. People complain about the fact that a lot of footage in the new O Canada comes from other sources - that isn't WDI's fault. They did the best they could with the budget they had. When you no longer have any say in the budgetary requirements of projects you can only do the best you can with the resources at hand. SAP means that every single person is accountable for their time - including PAs and administrators. So when you have people like that adding $80 per hour to your cost center for a project it eats into your available budget. That adds up to about $125k annually for the lowest grade. Middle management imagineers (think directors) run to over $1m annually on SAP - that is a huge burden on your cost base. WDI should be a sunk cost - a cost center as WDP&R's creative heart. You need WDI to generate your content. Mark my words - we will end up as an outsourcing enterprise. WDI will become a lean mean machine run by administrators who use outsourced creative and engineering contractors. The Universal Creative model is exactly where we are heading unless there is a drastic change in tone of management at the top.>> That's very distressing to hear coming from you ... but I also saw it coming. I am sure at this point that is very much the plan. And it really is sickening, akin to what Eisner did to Feature Animation before being driven out. WDI is the Magic Factory. They need to exist as a powerful creative entity, not as a small group of contractors and consultants. This is 1990s thinking all over again ... who is going to develop and build Shanghai? Oh, and in case you can't guess, I do place the blame on having someone like Jay leading P&R. I don't care what he does for the current bottom line, he is destroying the parks and apparently taking WDI down for the ride. He is about as magical as Rush Limbaugh. And Bob Iger's hands-off approach (so long as he/The Street are happy with the numbers) is again ... just a recipe for disaster.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Indeed I would profer that Jay and Bob are far worse than Micheal was, even in his final years. Certainly from the outside, it seems like things at the house of mouse are getting worse year on year.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This isn't simply being unhappy with a product, although obviously that is the case. Believe it or not, it's basic good business. It's about shareholder equity. As any good farmer knows the profit lies in tilling the fields, as every well eventually runs dry (see current economic headlines).>> <<Actually for WDP&R it isn't good business. Ultimately it is outside factors that have affected the business for the post twenty years - recessions and terrorist activities. There is little evidence that new product drives attendance at WDW. Very little.>> Didn't opening Disney-MGM result in not only increased attendance across the resort, but -- more importantly -- longer stays and higher guest spend? Didn't MK have some of its best years after Splash Mountain and the new Tomorrowland open? Didn't EPCOT see increases when major additions like TT and Soarin opened? Obviously, recessions (or our current depression) and terrorism (which wasn't a factor at all thankfully before 2001) would cause significant blips. <<So WDW Co. (as it was) can continue to drive incremental price increases and cost reductions to get to a better profit margin. There is no need to "till the fields" at WDW as there just isn't the basis to show it makes any difference.>> And how much more can you cut? How much more can you continue price increases while the product continues to deteriorate? Redoing Mansion was great ... and HoP likely will be. The redos to Small World and PoC were less satisfying but ... do any of those drive vacations? Would a new E-Ticket at MK with an international marketing campaign? Maybe I'm simple-minded, but I think it would. And doesn't any of the exec 'leadership' team ever stop to think about all those DVC owners ... do they really expect the same experiences at WDW in 2043 as they got in 1998, 2001, 2005 or 2009? I'd love to see a revolt ... a nice black-eye for Mickey. <<Naturally you need to ensure that your parks are safe and that the majority of the show is clean and appropriate but with short-term incentivization you don't need to look beyond a few years. The next management team can pick up the broken pieces in the future.>> That may be 'good' business by 21st Century USA standards ... but it's not the Disney Way ... and it's not what Disney conditioned myself, and countless millions, to expect. But so long as Jay, Al, Erin, Meg, Phil etc ... are all financially set for life, I suppose we fans should all just be happy with that amazing new Stitch Dance Party and Egg Fry in the MK!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Last night I spent a few hours at the MK and noticed a few things... 1) lots of exterior rehabs (almost bordering on too much) as every land I walked though baring Toontown (and Adventure/Tomorrow as I didn't go through there) had several buildings wrapped, least most had the matching building wrap but it was nice to see...>> Yeah. They are doing a lot of facade work. But considering the Florida climate and the amount of wood rot they have had ... I'm not sure this is anything more than 'we have no choice.' And I can't get too excited over basic maintenance ... as a kid I can still remember all the 'wet paint' signs with Donald (Happy B-Day duck!!!) that I'd see on every visit to the parks. When fans go ga-ga over basic TLC and rehabbing, it does speak volumes of how far Disney has fallen on the very basics. You know I'm not picking on 'ya, Em ... but this stuff wouldn't have been on the radar of fans in the 80s or 90s. <<2) I now can't say I've not seen the big wigs walk the park as when I was waiting for Move It, Shake It, Jay, Meg, Al, Phil and 2 others I didn't recognize walked by (yes I tried to grab my camera fast enough but missed it)>> Jay?!??! In the parks?!??! With no media??!?! I think you just missed the Disney equivalent of getting a picture of the Loch Ness Monster! ;-) <<3) Apparently I need to look up more as the two things I noticed to be the worse was that every queue line really needed to be swept and so many CMs shoes were far out of Disney Look...>> Queues are filthy on a regular basis. Worst at MK always are Buzz and Pirates. I'd love for Phil to put on a custodial outfit and spend a day with a broom ... besides, he could put it in Eyes and Ears to show how he can get his manicured hands dirty! <<4) There are still little touches of goodness there- I don't know if its common and I've just missed it or new but having all the planters at Columbia Harbor be planted with red white and blue flowers was a nice touch>> I've seen that before, although can't say whether it's been recent or not.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I was thinking this morning as I was reading through this thread that what has happened at the MK in terms of shops is exactly what happened at The Disney Stores. The Disney Stores went from a unique shop that carried lots of exciting things including collectables (and was a must stop at when at the mall) to a homogenized shop of t-shirts and plush aimed for kids (mine are all grown. We all know what happened to The Disney Stores.>> Clearly, it was a smart move on their part. I used to spend thousands of dollars at the Disney Stores. In the last two years I bought one cheap throwaway tee for $3.99. You can't argue with results like that! (and I am shocked Disney hasn't shuttered them since buying them back ... although maybe in tough times people are buying the cheap crap?)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>Um, then you don't get Family Guy...<< <<A lot of us "get" that it's nothing more than crass and loutish.>> Oh good, I've been praising Dug too much ... now I can at least disagree with something he says! Family Guy is definitely crass and loutish. And sometimes they go over the proverbial line ... and boy when it first started I tried to dislike it. I put on my best elitest clothes and stuck my nose in the air and put NPR on ... tried to convince myself it was for the WalMart crowd. ... But then I realized the satirical writing was so damn funny when it hit (and it hit far more than it missed), so now it is must-see TV for me. And nothing like two hours of it on TBS when I've had a lousy day. It may be very crass ... but it's also very entertaining. But I want whatever drugs Seth McFarlane is on because clearly its the good stuff!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit...Any plans to do EPCOT? I would love to hear your thoughts.>> I'll think about! ... These threads are certainly interesting and thought-provoking. I do feel EPCOT has more of its soul left by far than MK. So ... we'll see. I need to see if I can get a certain ex-Imagineer to post on this site/thread as I'd like to know his views.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo If it is who I think it is, I will just say I loved his work on the dentist office et al (arcades - genius)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<No canoes? Inconceivable!>> Well, considering the average weight of a WDW guest these days is probably hovering (good word) around 315 pounds, Legal probably thought it best to close them down. I know they still have them at DL, but are they still around in TDL and DLP? Don't recall ever seeing them in Paris.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo They closed in DLP in the mid 90's sadly, they were fun too, we used to have a little rapids area between BTMRR and the arch with the Cayote. You can see the remnants of the dock at the far end of the rubbish Pocahontas playground - back in the day, they used to have pueblo arts and crafts and other things dedicated to Native American history. We still have our keel boats on busy days though!
Originally Posted By DlandDug Recent canoe story... DS and I (that would be the DizKid) recently hosted two 15 y/o kids for a day at the park (a favor to their folks). One was a typical I'd-rather-be-playing-video-games type, and the other was trying to be as cool as his friend. DizKid and I just rolled with it-- and made sure we got to Big Thunder first (roller coaster, y'know?). As we exited BTMRR, a canoe full of guests came around the corner of TSI. Without thinking, Joe Cool and Cool jr. broke into a run, leaned over that split rail fence surrounding the Rivers of America and sang out, "I wanna do THAT!" Who knew? Who knew that a canoe full of guests would have such an effect? It's something you sure can't get out of a video game, anyway. And something (sadly) that doesn't happen at the MK any more.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed Dug (again). Pretty soon we can play a Wii version of TSMM. And Buzz in Florida debuted very late after similar technologies in europe were being used. For interactive attractions, the Canoes, TSI, and the old Mule Pack could not be beat as interactive immersive adventures IMHO.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Don't shut down a popcorn cart in the hour leading up to a parade, leaving the one open cart having to deal with twice as many customers which frustrates a bunch of people in line so they leave. One time, in 10 minutes I watched 20 or so people attempt to get popcorn/drink at the Studios only to balk at the size of the line. Certainly, they could have made up the hourly cost of having 2 people manning it (one to do money, one to fulfill the order) or have opened the other stand, what 30 ft away. >> That reminds me of a bad experience I had at EPCOT years ago now ... where I waited in line for one of those Japanese snow cones (kaki-gori?) for about 20 minutes on a hot summer night. I got to the register just as it hit 9 ( with a good 5-10 people behind me). The CM told me it was now closed and I couldn't be served. When I said something to the effect of 'I've been in line since 8:40, you've gotta be kidding?!' she almost hid and told me she's sell me a can of Coke ... I said I wanted the ice (the machine was still there with ice and syrup bottles) and she refused. I told her to have magical night and walked away astounded by the lack of customer service. <<Have an inventory system that is robust enough that if a guest asks, "Do you have X?" and the answer is no, the CM can easily tell the guest where he can go. Why is it that my Dad can go in an auto parts store for a $3 part, be told they don't have it, but if he comes back at 4 they will have it, but Disney CMs don't even know what is in their own store half the time?>> Simple. Because Disney views CMs as completely interchangable these days. In 1989, you may have had a CM at Emporium who had worked there since the park opened. There were many full-time CMs. And Cross-U wasn't a big deal ... you weren't chronically understaffed so suddenly someone who normally works QS at Studios is working at Coronado's gift shop ... or someone who normally works MK Tomorrowland attractions is now working the entrance of BB. I would guess there is no one working at say Emporium on a regular basis that was there in 2000. While learning the entire operation is good in theory (and great for CMs who need extra money), the result is often a hodepodge staff that doesn't even know who they are working with, let alone the ins and outs of the location.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It's like at DLP the other week. For years now, if is rare for the Main Street Vehicles to run after 10:30 in the morning so the Toon Train (and old Casey Jr float from the opening day parade) can role through every 90 minutes for character meet and greets on the hub. Now the characters are popular with young kids (though there are are characters everywhere including McDonald's). But when the Horsedrawn Streetcar was running, it was full in a minute or 2, and there were loads of cameras going mad as people took pictures. That is the cannot be seen elsewhere Disney difference.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You might be happy to know that there is discussion that the pins will be leaving the Trading Post.>> That depends ... if western-merchandise returns, I'll be happy. If it's princess costumes, Jonas Bros DVDs and Pirates crap than it's all the same to me ... (BTW, in full disclosure I -- and I feel so, soooo dirty in saying this -- bought three pins the other day at my local Disney outlet store for $2.99 a piece) <<Course, the rumored landing spot is Big Al's, so that might not make you happy.>> I honestly wouldn't be bothered as much. I never liked Al's to begin with. If they just actually opened some of the blacked out retail they have closed ... like the hat shop that's been shuttered for over a decade now next to the Diamond Horseshoe ... there would be no need for a stand to exist on a walkway. Al's was part of the ODV/move retail OUT movement ... I'd love to see them remove it in a night!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well, DLP and WDW closed the canoes at roughly the same time. In DLP, there was at least the excuse of language issues and awfully behaved guests that would try to tip the canoes or splash everyone. What was the excuse at WDW?>> Don't know if there were excuses. Disney doesn't like to publicize things like attraction closings.
