Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>Do Dems not beileve in God ???<<< I do, but I would consider myself more an independent, even though I'm registered Democrat. I am a church going moderate. As a Christian I am offended by the HATE spewed by a lot of people on the right claiming to be Christian as well. Christianity is about following Christ's teachings, and our goal is to be Christ-like. I've heard a tea partier I know say they would bring back slavery as long as the slaves could be Muslim. I know, that's just one person, but how many more are out there like that BECAUSE they are brainwashed with messages of hate from the far right. You don't need to do a poll to figure that out, just read comments on political boards or online newspaper articles. A relative who demanded I respect George W., if not for himself, at least because of his office, shows no respect for Obama calling him B.O. and an Obamination. This relative is also a HUGE fan of Beck and Limbaugh. Where do you think they GET these ideas. And these people call themselves Christians. You can see why the people on this site, as well as allover, are disgusted by the idea of Christianity. A lot of Christians push people away with their hateful, judgmental attitudes. Someone like Glen Beck does NOT represent my God and my religion.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >Do Dems not beileve in God ???< I don't, but that is a personal choice that I try not to force on people... Most democrats I know follow a major religion be it Islam, Judaism, Buddhism,Christianity, etc. I think the Glenn Beck god thing (if you read it again) was more about that Republicans tend to be Conservative Christians... if so was Beck only saying turn to that god or the god of your own choosing. If I remember correctly hasn't Beck mentioned at one point that he doesn't even believe all of the things he spews. He just knows people will believe him?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "individual freedoms... my right to carry a gun,,,my right to not have a pool fence,,,my right not to have to not have health care, blah blah blah" Your right not to have a pool fence?????????? Do you honestly think that making people secure their pools by constructing a safety barrier so toddlers can't accidentally drown is an infringement of your rights?????? Did you not say you work for a fire department in some capacity??? Ever fished a dead child out of a pool??? Know anyone who has???? That thinking only comes from a freaking idiot. A full blown moron. I really, truly don't care how this comes across, but your kind is a danger to society. If you work for a government entity, please quit. And using your twisted, contradictory, bloviated logic, you must also be for a woman's right to choose and for Joey to marry Larry or Carol to marry Shirley. Moreover, for their right to move next door to you and befriend your kids.
Originally Posted By ecdc It really is astounding, no? Donny's post is the essence of someone who watches too much Hannity or Beck. The first one is a lie; no one has said one thing about taking away guns. But have you ever talked to a rabid NRAer? They insist it's coming. They have no proof, they're just "scared" or "worried." (Notice how people always go to their feelings when they don't have facts on their side.) The second one, as SPP has already pointed out, is dangerous thinking. It's exactly the kind of thing the talk radio hosts use to instill rage in their listeners. The government is going to micro-manage your life! In reality, in an increasingly complex world, we put regulations in place to protect people, especially young people. I'm the first to acknowledge that some regulations make more sense than others, but they're usually born from a desire to help people. Donny takes that and turns it into a scary "threat on his freedoms," complete with diabolical motives. It's pretty nonsensical. The last one is a mixture of both the first and the second - falsehood mixed with a misguided understanding of freedom. It reminds me a bit of when people in the South said their freedom was infringed by having to go to school with black kids. I'm not accusing Donny of racism - just sloppy thinking that misses the point completely. Sometimes it's not all about the individual in this country. Sometimes there's a greater collective good. Donny complains about the healthcare issue, but then he'll turn right around and complain about taxes, totally unable to make the connection that we pay a higher cost as a society when uninsured people are rushed to the emergency room.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I really, truly don't care how this comes across,<< And it'll probably get admin'd. But this is EXACTLY how I feel, and what I mean when I say I'm done with suffering fools gladly. It's like trying to deprogram a cult member, but the cult stretches across the country and is brought into its members' homes by the ubiquitous mass media. These people cannot be reached or reasoned with. They are zombies. We can't kill them (they're already dead!) and we can't ignore them (they're threatening to take over). The only viable option I can see is to marginalize them. Stuff them back under their rock. Make it socially unacceptable to be one of them. Call them idiots to their faces, not to reach them (cause you can't), but so that others will see and imitate. And I'm afraid we're already too late on that one as well ... because for the first time we already have the extremism in place and thriving BEFORE the real economic crisis hits.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >Make it socially unacceptable to be one of them. Call them idiots to their faces, not to reach them (cause you can't), but so that others will see and imitate.< But doing that only adds fuel to their fire. By calling them a threat you become the threat because you're different and that's bad.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Call them idiots to their faces, not to reach them (cause you can't), but so that others will see and imitate.<< Here's the problem with that. There's this whole middle group of people who insist fairness is more important than accuracy. Yeah, I know I keep harping on it, but I see it EVERYWHERE. Ever had a political disagreement with someone at work or on Facebook or another public function? It doesn't matter how stupid or absurd or ridiculous the other person is. Here's how it goes: You: No, 2+2=4. Tea Bagger: I disagree. 2+2=5. I read this book that Glenn Beck talked about on his show. It went into how in the 1950s there was this government commission that changed the way universities are ran and now it's just a big elitist organization. You: You're an idiot. 2+2=4. It doesn't matter what your stupid Glenn Beck books says. Facts are facts. Random bystander: Hey now, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You: But if their opinion is wrong, I can point it out. Random bystander #2: An opinion can't be wrong, that's why it's an opinion. Random bystander #3: Yeah, jeez, why are you calling this person an idiot? I mean, there's lots of opinions out there, and can't we just have a disagreement without the name calling?" These people don't care about the facts. They care about the fairness and people getting along. These are the people who say they hate following politics because it's just two sides of dunderheads arguing with each other, as if being uninformed and ignorant somehow makes the cleaner than the rest of us.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 Not to cause an argument but 2+2 does equal 5 for extremely large values of 2.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<... what a little &&&& he was. Horrible, horrible child. Stupid, racist, rude, and thought he was better than everyone else and above the rules.>> OH! You're referring to Meg Whitman's son. Well, her two sons, Griff and Will. They're both really bad eggs, actually: <a href="http://www.ivygateblog.com/2010/06/how-will-princeton-grad-meg-whitman-explain-her-princeton-failure-sons-in-her-california-governor-election/" target="_blank">http://www.ivygateblog.com/201...lection/</a> "Overheard at Charter [eating club] Griff Harsh (Meg Whitman’s son) throws beer in Guy’s face. Guy: You can’t do that to people. Griff Harsh (points at himself): Billionaire." "Griff’s non-refundable membership to Cottage [eating club] was paid in full when he got suspended. So some of the officers would let Will attend some meals and formals events in his brother’s place until Will got banned from there. The story goes that Will yelled “what are all these niggers doing here” one night when all the members of the Black Arts Company where there to celebrate a show they had performed. Cottage is know as one of the whiter clubs on campus so I assume that he was shocked to see so many black people there in a night. He was already on notice with Cottage officers because of an altercation he started with a bouncer early in the year." Here's one about Will: “He’s just a tool. He was banned from at least one eating club for calling a girl a racial slur. He would pride himself on having several ‘girlfriends’ at one time, and tried unsuccessfully to be a player. He was actually independent (not in an eating club) which I always assumed was because no one wanted him or he was banned. OH and I almost forgot about the time he refused to introduce a girlfriend to his family because she was Jewish, and didn’t meet his standards of intellect. He may have thrown in fat, too. I can’t remember. Really classy.” And people thought Arnold's antics in Hollywood were bad. Arnold's no saint, but he's no Mel Gibson. Too bad the same can't be said about Meg's boys.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<...my right to not have a pool fence>> Fine. Don't put one up. Allow free access to anyone and everyone who comes onto your property. Then when some drunken fool falls in and drowns, or some little toddler from the house next door falls in and drowns, I will be standing on the sidelines watching the family sue your butt for everything you've got. Mark my words, they will win and clean you out. And I will be cheering for that family every step of the way, until you're completely flat broke because of your arrogant egotistical disregard for public safety. <<... my right not to have to not have health care>> Fine. Go ahead and refuse to get health care. Then when you become terminally ill or chronically ill with a disease that has no cure, I will be standing on the sidelines watching the hospital sue your butt for everything you've got, to pay for your treatment. Or I will be standing on the sidelines bathed in schadenfreude, while you wither away to your ultimate demise, not feeling any sympathy or empathy for your plight, because of your arrogant egotistical disregard for your health and the health of others by refusing to join a health care plan. Anyone who makes stupid dumb arse statements such as these deserves every single trauma and calamity that comes their way. I'm sick of attitudes such as this, that individual rights ALWAYS trump the rights of the people and the greater societal good. Even the founding fathers didn't buy into this "individual rights first" nonsense, no matter what Beck claims.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But doing that only adds fuel to their fire. By calling them a threat you become the threat because you're different and that's bad.<< So what? They think I'm a threat now. >>There's this whole middle group of people who insist fairness is more important than accuracy.<< That's not a middle group. That's part of the problem.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>until you're completely flat broke because of your arrogant egotistical disregard for public safety.<< Which is ironic given that Donny's profession (IIRC) is as a firefighter (public safety).
Originally Posted By hopemax Now, see, this is where my "limited government" side of me is not sure if we need laws about "pool fences." And, before people freak out too much about this, I am mostly playing devil's advocate, "what if..." I have no actual problem with safety laws. People, correctly point out what would happen without them. If something would happen, then people would sue. And there would also be large claims that insurance companies would have to pay out. I know in states, that do not have laws requiring pool fences, it IS mandated by the insurance company for coverage. And even in states that have laws, the insurance requirements can be stricter. Is it likely that if Donny's government stopped telling him to erect a pool fence, that would mean a decreased number of pool fences; and a rise in injuries/drowings?
Originally Posted By hopemax So I guess my follow-ups to Donny would be... 1. Are you okay with your insurance company telling you what must do? 2. If yes, what is the difference between government telling you and a private company? It's still not "individual freedom," and the private company has no duty to work in your best interest (government,OTOH, is supposed to, theoretically, serve the best interests of the people).
Originally Posted By ecdc And that's just it, hopemax. I have no problem having a discussion about the role of government regulation, what's too much vs. too little, what should require punitive incarceration vs. civil lawsuit, etc. All of these are important issues to hash out and have a conversation about in a Democracy. And it'll never be perfect and sometimes it'll be sloppy and sometimes we'll get it wrong. So you're right to play devil's advocate. But those conversations can't happen on issues as far ranging as pool fences to healthcare reform because people like Donny stand up and say, "The gov'mint's takin' way my freedom!" How on earth does a democracy facing serious issues function when a large portion of its citizenry is wrapped up in whether or not the President is a Muslim terrorist, gay-loving, abortion-performing, Hitler clone? And the utter nerve of them to even speak words like "freedom" "socialism" and "constitution" when they have no concept of their meaning is ridiculous.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I'd also like to know what Donny plans to do with his government miitary pension if he is eligible as well as his government pension for working at the fire department.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Didn't he say he was a volunteer firefighter? I can't remember exactly though...
Originally Posted By mawnck >>And the utter nerve of them to even speak words like "freedom" "socialism" and "constitution" when they have no concept of their meaning is ridiculous.<< The US Constitution ... TL;DNR.
