Originally Posted By Donny Singlepassholder when the State local resouces are being wasted on these criminals who should not be here I.E. Schools,hospitals,Welfare,Fire,Police and so much more I think a State has every moral right to say we are going to need to stop this.Singlepass holder let me give you a basic civics lesson this nation was set up and meant to be a voluntary association of sovereign states populated by sovereign individuals. It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force. This is evidenced in the wording of the ninth and tenth amendments to the Constitution.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Singlepass holder let me give you a basic civics lesson this nation was set up and meant to be a voluntary association of sovereign states populated by sovereign individuals. It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force. This is evidenced in the wording of the ninth and tenth amendments to the Constitution." Better bone up for that Civics test. Article IV of the Constitution says otherwise.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***let me give you a basic civics lesson this nation was set up and meant to be a voluntary association of sovereign states*** The Civil War pretty much trumps your "basic civics lesson", or did you miss that in history class.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Can I quote some or all of that Maw?...attributed to "something a friend said" of course.<< By all means. I guess the horse I got on last night was a particularly high one.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 So...basically screw the nation we are now...we should be the "Non-United States of America"?? There should be no president? If so, you have no business ranting about the constitution if you think states should be able to do whatever they like.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<meant to be a voluntary association of sovereign states populated by sovereign individuals. It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force. This is evidenced in the wording of the ninth and tenth amendments to the Constitution>> "To realize its perfection, we must view the General Government and those of the States as a whole, each in its proper sphere, sovereign and independent; each perfectly adapted to its respective objects; the States acting separately, representing and protecting the local and peculiar interests; and acting jointly through one General Government, with the weight respectively assigned to each by the Constitution, representing and protecting the interest of the whole; and thus perfecting, by an admirable but simple arrangement, the great principle of representation and responsibility, without which no government can be free or just." - John C. Calhoun Confederate and conservative seem to be synonymous these days.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force." Either provide concrete evidence of this or shut the hell up. It's this type of idiocy that is dragging us down.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>this nation was set up and meant to be a voluntary association of sovereign states populated by sovereign individuals. It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force.<< Some points are in order, I think. First, it is true that the United States was a loose confederation of sovereign states. But let's not pretend like there wasn't vigorous debate even back then between Federalists and anti-Federalsts. Because there was. Second, the whole experiment Donny's essentially calling for failed miserably with a tiny little event called "The Civil War." Now, Donny may be part of this minority group who thinks the South was right and had a right to secede. That was never provided for in the Constitution and that's why Lincoln, widely considered our best President, fought to preserve the Union. But mark my words, friends, the anti-Lincoln crusade will keep rolling forward just as the anti-FDR crusade gets stronger. After that whole shenanigan, the country was more unified and our best times have always been when we were united in common causes, when we put our best foot forward and when we worked hard as a nation and not as a union. Vomiting up nonsense like this about what the country "was meant to be" is absurd. The Founders meant this, the founders meant that. Blah blah blah. The Founders also owned slaves and crapped in a wooden box outside in the middle of winter. Should we jump on those bandwagons too? Live I've said, these are people who live in a different reality. They've invented this myth out of whole cloth where our best times as a country (unity, progress, WWII, etc.) were actually our worst times, and our worst times were actually our best. Lincoln and FDR and other federalists were horrible Presidents, while hands-off failures like Hoover and Harding were actually geniuses. Their version of history does not have much room for anyone outside of white Protestants. It's pointless, really, to try and explain any of it.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force." >>Either provide concrete evidence of this or shut the hell up. It's this type of idiocy that is dragging us down.<< Or at the very least he should reference where he copied those last three sentences from. It's so frustrating the way conservative voters can't seem to think independently and often demonstrate mental laziness and ineptitude. They frequently parrot someone else and then passing it off as if it's their idea. It's no wonder that so many of them have been sucked into the Tea Party vortex thinking that they are some grassroots movement while unknowingly forwarding the agenda of entities that they claim to despise.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney "It is ESSENTIAL to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion, or a favored class of it; otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans, and claim for their government the honorable title of republic." It's like the founding fathers had ESP!
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<Live I've said, these are people who live in a different reality. They've invented this myth out of whole cloth where our best times as a country (unity, progress, WWII, etc.) were actually our worst times, and our worst times were actually our best.>> Interestingly, I've been speaking with a professor at William & Mary about writing my doctoral thesis about this very phenomenon (i.e., whether individuals use their ideology to drive their interpretation of history, or vice versa). I'm largely convinced the direction of causality here is indeed ideology --> interpretation of history. This is particularly true with regard to the Framers.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Or at the very least he should reference where he copied those last three sentences from.> Good call, Hans. Should have recognized that those sentences were, shall we say, a bit different in tone and erudition than Donny's usual. <a href="http://www.weeklyblitz.net/740/arizona-states-rights-and-immigration" target="_blank">http://www.weeklyblitz.net/740...igration</a> Third paragraph: "It is seldom remembered that this nation was set up and meant to be a voluntary association of sovereign states populated by sovereign individuals. It was never meant to be a centralized empire held together by coercion and threat of force. This is evidenced in the wording of the ninth and tenth amendments to the Constitution." Compare and contrast to Donny's "history lesson" in #61. It's actually just a lesson in plagiarism. (Hans): <They frequently parrot someone else and then passing it off as if it's their idea.> Yep. Busted.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<First, it is true that the United States was a loose confederation of sovereign states. But let's not pretend like there wasn't vigorous debate even back then between Federalists and anti-Federalsts.>> Nor should we pretend that the Framers knew full well that their previous venture into a "confederation of sovereign states" was a miserable failure. Donny should read some John Adams, especially some of his anti-confederate rants during 1775. Enlightening stuff.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 I think the greatest thing our founders ever did was to realize that they had no idea where this country was headed.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Can I quote some or all of that Maw?...attributed to "something a friend said" of course.<< By all means*** Thanks.
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///The true Republicans, Abe Lincoln Republicans, need to reclaim their party./// Lincoln was a punk and should be disrespected. He didn't give a presidential rats' ass about the nation's 3 most oppressed people: blacks, indians and Chinese........... and his flagrant and widespread attacks on civil liberties didn't sit too well with me either. Out of all the US chiefs Jackson, Lincoln and Bush II were the biggest punks.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Lincoln was a punk and should be disrespected." Are you drunk, stoned or both?
