Originally Posted By RoadTrip It's all the fault of the feminists. Back in the 70's they convinced all the women to go to work outside the home. Now there is no one around to cook decent meals. You either eat out or you cook convenience foods at home which are just about as bad. What are you supposed to do? With both parents probably working 50 hours per week in today's world how do you get time to cook? The exercise thing? Feminists there too. With all the women working outside the home the kids are left inside at daycare or at home with orders not to go outside the house until a parent is home. So they sit and snack and watch TV and play video games. What the heck else are they supposed to do? When you get right down to it most of today's problems were caused by the feminists. But that’s another post... ;-)
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Careful or this thread will end up in World Events and then I get to have my discussion about the Body Mass Index again <sinister laugh>.
Originally Posted By jonvn "When you get right down to it most of today's problems were caused by the feminists. " And the Jews. Don't forget to always blame the Jews.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd >>>With both parents probably working 50 hours per week in today's world how do you get time to cook?<<< Here's the problem. And I don't mean the feminists. =P We went from a single income household home by dinnertime to two people working 50+ hours. Why are we living like this? We work a greater percentage of our lives to be forced to sacrifice our time with our families, running out to grab the fast food leading to an early death by heart attack.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Telling people it is somehow their own fault for not being able to keep themselves thin is really ignorant and cruel. You don't know what you are talking about, and you don't know what it is like for people who do have a very serious struggle with this sort of thing. >> Jon, I've lived the struggle with people in my family. I watched them deteriorate (and in one case already, die). I damn well know that it was largely (no pun intended) their own fault. I've watched the behavior. I've watched the denial. And the mental illness. Just like it's my own fault that I need to drop 25-30 pounds. I didn't need to stop at McDonald's today because I was late and needed to grab something quickly ... I didn't need that Big Mac (even without the special sauce which is good for 100 calories or more), and while it's great I had the side salad with 60 calorie dressing and no fries, it doesn't change the fact that I could have eaten elsewhere or even skipped a meal. No one made me eat there. Nothing in my genes or my grandparents or their grandparents genes either. I chose the quick and unhealthy choice. Period. Just like the fat woman who was sitting in her car eating likely to avoid the shame of going inside and having people wonder why someone who weighs 400 pounds needs to consume a 3,000 calorie meal at a fast food outlet. What's really cruel and ignorant is saying that people who are morbidly obese never had any chance to be anything else and that they'll have to suffer in that fat for the rest of their lives. It's not true. Not at all. Sometimes, it just starts with something simple. For example: I know if I stop drinking Coke, I'll drop 10-12 pounds within a few weeks. I know this because I've done it before. I'm not doing it now out of a conscious choice even though I know it's bad for me ... I need the caffeine and I HATE the taste (or lack thereof) of Diet Coke. But genetics isn't telling me 'Hey, Fatty, guzzle down another refill.' That's all on me. You make good points about diets. They all work if you follow them for a while. But then as soon as you go off, the weight goes right back on. No matter the fad diet (I am at Ground Zero for the South Beach Diet.) People need to consume less and exercise more. No, that may not make a 400 pounder into a 130-pounder. But it will likely make that 400-pounder into a much lighter, much healthier person. At some point, we all need to take responsibility for our actions.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "When you get right down to it most of today's problems were caused by the feminists. " <<And the Jews. Don't forget to always blame the Jews.>> I always do. But what would Jesus say? And what diet would he recommend?
Originally Posted By jonvn "I damn well know that it was largely (no pun intended) their own fault." No, you don't. As I said, when it is the case that basically no one can deal with the problem, then it is not the fault of an individual. I know it LOOKS like it is or should be, and the medical establishment for years has basically been in agreement, but in the last few years a lot of information has come to light, and thinking in medical circles has changed quite a bit. "I didn't need that Big Mac " You probably didn't NEED anything. You just WANTED something. And that is what is trying to be understood now. I don't eat Big Macs at all. They are disgusting. " Nothing in my genes or my grandparents or their grandparents genes either." Science would possibly disagree with you. "What's really cruel and ignorant is saying that people who are morbidly obese never had any chance to be anything else and that they'll have to suffer in that fat for the rest of their lives. It's not true. Not at all." You are not listening. It is basically humanly impossible for people in this state to do anything about the condition. This information comes from medical stats that have been compiled on the subject all across this country. There is a 96% failure rate of people trying to lose weight and keep it off. To give you an idea, you know how deadly pancreatic cancer is. That has only a 90% mortality rate. You are more likely to survive pancreatic cancer than you are to lose weight and keep it off. "I need the caffeine and I HATE the taste (or lack thereof) of Diet Coke." You should try Coke Zero. "But genetics isn't telling me 'Hey, Fatty, guzzle down another refill.' That's all on me." How do you know what is or is not driving you to drink that crap? No one else seems to quite understand it, but you do? That's not how it works. "I am at Ground Zero for the South Beach Diet." It will fail. They all do. You might as well not bother. And the more weight you need to lose, the far more likely it is the diet will fail. What you are talking about is treating a SYMPTOM of something else that is underlying. Yes, you can treat the symptom, but the cause will still remain and the symptom of whatever it is will come back with a vegence over and over again.
Originally Posted By barboy "There is a 96% failure rate of people trying to lose weight and keep it off" because those people CHOOSE to exit a viable and working eating plan or they CHOOSE to not excercise or both. It's called being lazy or apathetic. I choose to work my body even though it is not fun. I would rather eat everything and anything and watch reruns of Hogan's Heroes on my 65" plasma but I have more self esteem and self respect because I want to live my life to its fullest and be a good solid physical speciman. It's all about priorities. (Hey, jonv those catholic priests had no choice but to play with the young fire and smoke assistants behind closed doors so it must not be their fault and therefore we need to stop talking ill will about the church. You see those select priests were born with a homosexual gene with an attraction to the very young--- it's in their DNA so let's not send them to prison or do any harm to them either)
Originally Posted By barboy Ok I should not have been so sarcastic about the priest thing. Sorry. That's all we need here is to dig that sore topic up again.
Originally Posted By jonvn "because those people CHOOSE " No. They don't CHOOSE anything. People are simply unable to do otherwise. It's not that these 96% have made no effort, this figure comes from people who HAVE made an effort, lost weight, but have been unable to retain the weight loss. Almost NO ONE can do it. So "those people" you talk about is basically EVERYONE. It is such a small percentage of people who actually can lose weight and keep it off that their behavior is ABNORMAL. "those catholic priests had no choice but to play with the young" Pedophiles can't control their behavior, either. Which means they need to be separated from society, not empowered to engage in further criminal acts.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd Here's a question? Have we completely shaken off all our instincts and become complete creatures of choice? We have changed our environment in what in evolutionary terms is a nanosecond. To survive in the wild, animals including us not so long ago, have to survive periods of famine by consuming mass quantities of calories. Now, there are no periods of famine. But does that mean the instinct is gone? I really don't think so. Evolution designed us to derive great pleasure from the things that guaranteed the continuation of a species; food, sex, comfort, companionship, protection of our young... We are hardwired to seek it out. We can't just turn it off. And it doesn't just evolve out in a matter of a century or two. You may say just put down the Twinkie, but Darwin says it's going in your mouth.
Originally Posted By barboy It's just that it is totally irresponsible to use science as valid reason to trump personal responsibility. We control our lives and our destinies not some science journal. Using science to justify overeating and not excercising is the easy road; the road of least social resistance--- the PC route. But it is a very foolish and way to address the problem. The answer is basic: start using that treadmill you put in the basement two years ago(for all you mid-western to east coasters). If you live in the west coast hit the running and bike trails and go back to the gym regularly(since you already paid your membership fees).
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << You may say just put down the Twinkie, but Darwin says it's going in your mouth. >> Interesting that you mention Darwin -- the man who defined "survival of the fittest." It seems to me that our society is actually working in reverse. We have come up with ways for the least fit to survive in ways that nature probably would not have ever allowed.
Originally Posted By barboy It's not just food--- surely you can see that..... right? People need to get out of the chairs and work their bodies. "oh, but I work 55- 70 hrs a week and I don't have time" BS! 10 minutes per day of a hard sweat workout could do wonders to one's energy levels.
Originally Posted By jonvn "It's just that it is totally irresponsible to use science as valid reason to trump personal responsibility." It is not irresponsible, and it's not personal responsibility. You don't seem to understand that it is not something that people are able to do. This is what we are finding out. What you are suggesting as how it works is simply not the case. It is not the "easy road" it is the ONLY road. This is how we are, and how people behave. Almost without exception. "The answer is basic: " No, obviously that is NOT the answer, as it DOES NOT WORK for just about anyone at all. When you can wrap your head around the fact that you are talking about a symptom to a problem, and not the problem itself, maybe you will understand.
Originally Posted By barboy "it DOES NOT WORK" physically excercising doen't work? Try it, do it, live it and you will see results.... I promise you.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I can assure everyone that 100% of the people that work out at my gym I attend loose weight. With the exception of while I was in college, I have been fat my entire life. Not anymore! I'm down to 16.5% body fat. 70% of all medical expenses can be avoided if people exercised frequently and ate correctly, at least thats what they broadcast on the TVs at the gym I attend. Lack of exercise and overeating is a lifesytle decision. Just like over charging to your credit cards. Even is we have precusors in our genes that make us more suseptable to certain disease ( diabetes runs in my family ). Its our responcibility to take control over our lives and be healthy. My parents told me this past summer ( after I had gotten into incredible shape ) that they always thought I was the most likely of all my brothers and sisters to come down with diabetes. Now that I am gung ho with fitness that is not very likely.
Originally Posted By barboy "This is how we are, and how people behave." ---well then people are lazy or apathetic at best when it comes to their size and shape.
Originally Posted By christiemarsh88 Sorry if someone already mentioned this point, but I am too bemused/offended by this comment to wait: <<<I am not going to comment of the obese epidemic of this country, nor am I going to comment on the type of people that visit WDW now a days..and especially those from the midwest.>>> What the heck does the midwest have to do with obesity? Are you implying that every obese person in the country comes from the midwest, or simply that every person from the midwest is obese? And just to clarify, I'm from Springfield, MO, proud to be from the heart of the midwest, and I'm 5 pounds under my target weight. I eat healthy, and exercise regularly. Don't you think the time for generalizations based on region has passed? In today's world, most Americans are alike in many ways, regardless of regional differences. I'm pretty sure that some southerners don't even marry their cousins anymore.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Christie - do not take offence to this one - the comment I believe was aimed at someone with a great character and this was a discussion between two sparring partners.
