Originally Posted By jonvn "physically excercising doen't work?" No, it does not. Unless you missed it the first several times I have said it, 96% of the population who attempts to lose weight are unable to keep it off. And, yes, as I have said, you will see some temporary benefit from diet and exercise, but the key word here is TEMPORARY. Almost no one is able to maintain it. "well then people are lazy or apathetic at best when it comes to their size and shape." No, actually, they are not. They sign up for gyms, they go on diet plans, they spend tons of money. They work hard at it, and make effort after effort after effort. The ideas that you are promoting simply are not workable, and do not work.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Well, I"m enjoying being at 16.5% body fat. My body must be happy since my bad cholesterol levels are way down and my good cholesterol levels are way up. Works for me!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<the comment I believe was aimed at someone with a great character and this was a discussion between two sparring partners.>> And The Spirit is wrong on that one too. I may be 15 pounds overweight, but that is it. The proof is on LP Live: <a href="http://laughingplace.com/lp/live/0002144-326207.jpg" target="_blank">http://laughingplace.com/lp/li ve/0002144-326207.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By sherrytodd OK, I am understanding what jonvn is saying. It really is not as easy as saying, well just go on a diet. Yes, there are many people out there that are going to successfully loose weight. But the vast majority of those people are going to gain that weight back and in most cases and then some. When you say it is a choice they made, well is it really the choice a person would make; to live the more difficult life? And to say that person is lazy when in every other aspect of their life they are not is unfair. So what does drive a person to become overweight? I do firmly believe that the instinct to eat is still firmly ingrained in our being. Before in our society, mealtime was a daily ritual. It took time to prepare and was worked for. Now food is available everywhere you look in vast quantities. I don't believe that we, not as humans, but as the animals we are, were meant to survive this way. Perhaps were are seeing Darwinism. And in survival of the fittist, I don't think we are faring very well.
Originally Posted By barboy "key word here is TEMPORARY." yep, it's temporary because people are lazy or lack the personal will power. I have little sympathy for those large types if they refuse to work their bodies routinely for the long term.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Well, I"m enjoying being at 16.5% body fat." Good for you, then. Other people aren't so lucky. "So what does drive a person to become overweight? " This is the issue. No one knows why this has suddenly become a problem, and why people are craving 3000 calorie meals. As I mentioned, one thing involves epigenetics. That is one thing. There are many other factors that are going on. One recent discovery is that there has been a virus that turns stem cells into fat cells. This was discovered about 3 to 6 months ago. Something has gone on to trigger a sudden increase in people's weight and the need for ever higher amounts of food. It is not understood. Also not understood is how to treat the situation. Simply telling people to diet and exercise is not a workable solution, as people simply can't do it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "yep, it's temporary because people are lazy or lack the personal will power." No. It is temporary because it is normal human behavior. What you describe is basically abnormal. Again, you seem to think that by treating a symptom, you are fixing an underlying problem. You are not. You seem to think that a person who makes continued efforts their entire life is somehow lazy. They are not. I can keep repeating this for you, but it seems you want to stick to what is basically wrong and outdated concepts because they are easier to deal with. Unfortunately real life intrudes and makes your comments false and beyond infeasable for basically everyone. What you suggest is that EVERYONE is lazy. EVERYONE has no will power. That is not correct. It simply is not something a NORMAL person can do.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The other thing I should point out Jovn, I'm not sure if you are old enough, but I clearly remember McDonald's advertising ( back in the 70s ) that a meal was a cheese burger, fries and drink. We know for a fact that the same "meal" has gotten much bigger. Not to mention the phrase, "do you want to supersize that". On the other hand there are much healthier food choices avaiable now at fast food places.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<No. It is temporary because it is normal human behavior. What you describe is basically abnormal.>> Its normal human behavior to avoid toil and hardship. For thousands of years humanity had to hunt, farm and toil to gather crops and food. Now all we have to do is walk into a grocery store, no blood, no dirt, no mess. Like it or not but humans are mammals and fat is merely stored energy in mammals. Not all mammals are "fat". Some mammals increase their fat reserves so they can hibernate in the winter. That is normal for them. What is normal is that humans want to avoid pain, toil and hardship, thus be lazy. We have to work to take and keep fat off of our bodies.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<What is normal is that humans want to avoid pain, toil and hardship, thus be lazy>>> All animals want to avoid this. It is instinct to avoid pain. Sorry. I don't see my cat running for the treadmill.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I can assure everyone that 100% of the people that work out at my gym I attend loose weight. >> You must go to an abnormal. I go to the gym 6x a week and am always amazed at the number of overweight people there who show no noticeable change in their appearance over a period of months/years. I've observed this over the past 20 years or so at gyms around the country. One of my biggest pet peeves is having to wait for a treadmill that someone is walking at 3.0 mph for hours on end when they could probably go twice as fast for 1/3 of the time to achieve the same effect, or the women who put the minimum weight on the bar and do 1000 reps while you agonize waiting so that you can do an effective routine of 6-12 reps at the maximum weight you can bear. It's amazing how people will take the time out to go to the gym but not put any real effort into it while they're there. I've also witnessed some overweight people really working up a sweat and putting in a lot of effort, but their appearance never seems to change. I'm not sure how much they're eating when they get home, but just working up a sweat at the gym is apparently not enough. 90% of people at the gym aren't accomplishing anything.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Again, you seem to think that by treating a symptom, you are fixing an underlying problem. You are not. You seem to think that a person who makes continued efforts their entire life is somehow lazy. They are not. >> What about all the people who don't try at all or due it in a half-assed fashion? I'm trying to not label you a DOF ... Defender of Flab ... but if I am to understand you, you believe that people who are fat have no choice? That's crazy. How fat are you? And here's one for you, most doctors agree that the excessive weight gain is just a symptom of something underlying ... usually it's just a manifestation of some other form of mental illness. Agree or disagree?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Again, you seem to think that by treating a symptom, you are fixing an underlying problem. You are not. You seem to think that a person who makes continued efforts their entire life is somehow lazy. They are not. >> What about all the people who don't try at all or due it in a half-assed fashion? I'm trying to not label you a DOF ... Defender of Flab ... but if I am to understand you, you believe that people who are fat have no choice? That's crazy. How fat are you? And here's one for you, most doctors agree that the excessive weight gain is just a symptom of something underlying ... usually it's just a manifestation of some other form of mental illness. Agree or disagree?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Again, you seem to think that by treating a symptom, you are fixing an underlying problem. You are not. You seem to think that a person who makes continued efforts their entire life is somehow lazy. They are not. >> What about all the people who don't try at all or due it in a half-assed fashion? I'm trying to not label you a DOF ... Defender of Flab ... but if I am to understand you, you believe that people who are fat have no choice? That's crazy. How fat are you? And here's one for you, most doctors agree that the excessive weight gain is just a symptom of something underlying ... usually it's just a manifestation of some other form of mental illness. Agree or disagree?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Sorry for the triple post ... I was just thinking that my great-great-great grandmother was telling me to head over to Wendy's for a triple!
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains Me and my multiple personalities thought your were one of us... - but seriously I do agree I think we all gain weight for a reason and it's not just a physical problem to loose it - it's totally mental...
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I understand what Jon is saying, but the problem I have with the theory is, why is it only or primarily affecting people in America? The only answer(s) I come up with is our diet, and our lifestyle.... which are choices.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I'm not sure if you are old enough, but I clearly remember McDonald's advertising ( back in the 70s ) that a meal was a cheese burger, fries and drink" Quite old enough. That was it. And the large drink you got is now medium, or even small.
Originally Posted By jonvn "What about all the people who don't try at all or due it in a half-assed fashion?" What about them? They have some underlying issue that is causing it, same as everyone else. "you believe that people who are fat have no choice?" I believe what medical research has found thus far, which is that it is basically impossible for people to lose weight and keep it off. No matter what the diet plan is, no matter what effort is made. For just about everyone. "How fat are you?" Not very. "usually it's just a manifestation of some other form of mental illness. Agree or disagree?" I have no idea. I haven't seen anything that says this. "why is it only or primarily affecting people in America?" It is starting to affect people in other countries too, they are catching up.
Originally Posted By jonvn Oh, and spirit, try coke zero. It really does taste much better than diet coke.
