Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>So it can be done........<< It can be done as long as guests are willing to obey rules and regulations. One example of a similar incident you explained is at HKDL... CMs, signs, and pa's tell guests not to use flash photography and to turn pagers and cellphones off. That simply didn't happen nor did I see CMs enforcing the rules; and me personally had to endure a phone conversation when a chinese guest behind me *received* a call in the middle of the Golden Mickeys show. As for rude manners and the like...my observations from the various Disney parks tell me that the entire World has become rude for the most part, period. Not just Euros, hispanics, Asians or Americans. Rudeness is everywhere. (Some here even claim TDLFAN personifies the concept!!) Some observations... At DLR, during my last vacation, I hardly experienced any incidents of rudeness, but I have heard of incidents where guests have gotten into fights at the hub during the fireworks... Go figure. At WDW...not only do I find the loud chanting chanting and histerics the brazillian tours groups make (in addition to the way they open and drop merchandise they don't intend to buy on the floor), but also find rude that people of all races smoke in non-smoking areas, or that some UK visitors and American trailer comunity in particular go around in various stages of undress or wearing bathing suit tops and not much else, or that people from the southern countries, the carribean and Europe see fit to leave their trash all over the place for all to see and enjoy. Given the fact that WDW's custodial staffing is at minimum, it becomes a problem rather quickly.. At TDR... the japanese have been for the most part the most well-behaved of guests but they too have caught on to the ways of the west...as cutting in line seems to be a major problem in the early hours as the crunch of guests enter the park once it opens. But for the most part, they seem to behave better and cooperate more with posted rules and regulation (although the TDR CM's are quick to call the attention of a guest who is NON compliance, which to me is the *TRICK* to make things happen in regards to crowd behavior and control.) At DLP... well, sorry to say, but they are the rudest guests I have encountered at any Disney park. ...and not just the french but the rest of the Euro community around the immediate area of France, especially the Italians... But somehow, the spanish and UKers seem to be the exception here. Most DLP guests smoke constantly indoors, outdoors, inside attractions, during rides, and in queue. No regards for the posted Smoking policy. There is also a lot of line cutting at this park, as well as lots of guests being allowed to trample gardens and trasspass beyond the fences. Plus they do not believe in sanitation as the park is always trashed beyond belief. The situation has become so bad that I avoid going to DLP during rush or high season periods. Plus I have also experienced many times of chanting and rowdy behavior from guests which puts me off royally. At DLP, CMs do nothing to curtail those traits. It makes for the worst possible experience at the most beautiful DL Park on Earth, and that's a shame. Lastly at HKDL... I was lucky enough to visit on a day that was rather very uncrowded just 2 days after the grand opening, but reports are rampant about line cutting, guest fights, pushing and shoving, and public peeing... That in addition to the infractions I reported about cellphone use and smoking off the smoking areas. The only negative experience I had at HKDL in regards to rudeness was at fireworks time when a french speaking young couple (go figure!) pushed their way to the front instantly blocking the view of those of us who waited for a longer time to see the show... It irked me and I confronted the situation which was resolved quickly once they moved over but still...it was not pleasant. So it will be interesting for me to see how the HKDL guest base behaves as times go by...but I am not holding my breath. ..And there you have it. Rudeness is IMO rampant around the World, but in regards to Disney parks... it's very easy to see how rudeness plays in regards to cultural traits and behaviors... much like looking at the big picture from a micro cosmos perspective. Finally, in regards to Disney parks...I applaud any CM who takes the time and initiative to stand up to guests and lay down the law as it should be expected, such as the Haunted Mansion CM did as told at the beginning of this topic. Respect begins at home and CM's should have the urge to do so at Disney in order to maintain control of any situation that may arise. I think it's about time Disney security got tough and started kicking offenders off the premises if only to send a message that this kind of behavior is not to be tolerated. If only the majority of the CMs had the galls to do that often.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider ^^ I agree that rudeness knows no borders. I also agree CMs should become more active - although sometimes I can understand why they don't i.e. one of them trying to control a large group of extremely rowdy and disres[ectful guests not only seems beyond the call of duty for what they already have to put up with (which is bad enough at their pay scale) but also sometimes possibly dangerous. Some people are just <expletive referring to a person's rear end> and wouldn't think twice about pushing around some guy or gal in a little butler/maid uniform or Swiss Alps attire. I do think they should be quicker on the trigger to call in the Mickey Police. If a CM asks you to pick up your trash or keep quiet and you refuse or confront them they should just get booted right there and take their garbage with them.
Originally Posted By Trinitys Ghost I haven't seen much in the way of rudness (by CM or guest) within the HM, but I've seen it elsewhere in the parks here and there. As for me, I generally keep quiet on the ride (especially the stretching rooms) if fellow guests are doing the same. If I'm with an entire group that I know has no problem whooping it up, or reciting the spiel, I'll follow suit (yet still maintain respectful decorum).
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Please, keep in mind that others may not want to hear you or your group reciting the spiel to that ride in the stretching room. Keeping hush hush would be maintaining respectful decorum IMO..
Originally Posted By gaston lives Trinity's Ghost is referring to the Doombuggs, who only do this if they are alone in the stretchrooms at midnight...or closing time. Trust me, we Doombuggs totally repect the HM.
Originally Posted By Trinitys Ghost Doombugs is sort of connected to Doombuggies.com. Anyhow, gaston lives has hit the nail on the head. I've only done the spiel aloud a handful of times (with full group of folks who didn't mind). The rest of the time, I've remained silent. What beats all is bringing in the Ipod and playing the spiel at the beginning. The scream is a bit spookier when listening to it through headphones, among other non-HM venues.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I noticed a massive difference in the number of people smoking in areas that were not smoking areas between WDW and DLR. I only saw one very old, wrinkled lady (probably about 24 yrs. old) sitting next to a food Kiosk in frontierland in California. Amazingly no one was saying anything to her at all and she was within two feet of the cart. Overall, I didn't even see one other person smoking out of place but I got curious and checked it out and could not believe how few places are designated smoking area in the park and how far away from everything they are. In WDW I see it everyplace and have yet to see anyone attempt to stop it. It may have happened but I have not seen it yet.
Originally Posted By Labuda I've seen it happen both at WDW and at DL. And I applaud inside each time I see it happen. Plus, you're right about DL itself - hardly ANY smoking areas, but the MK at WDW has them just about around every corner, it seems. DCA only has a couplke as well. But even at DAK, I can think of 4 or so offhand.
Originally Posted By disney pete TDLFAN my friend and his wife just came back from DLP and they echo everything you mentioned people smoking everywhere and stubbing them out anywhere,lots of people cutting in lines and general rudeness mostly french but many other europeans this is not good listening at all
Originally Posted By sg My goodness, I can't believe how much prejudiced comments I'm hearing. Large groups tend to be more boisterous, often appear ruder (possibly can be) for many reasons. It isn't fair to make blanket statements about any race, or religion, or sexual orientation. People are rude, yes! Groups usually seem to be ruder, especially teenagers. Energy, show off behaviour, excitement! But making rude comment about the French, or the Gay groups, or the Brazilians is so unfair! Just as unfair as those making rude comments about americans! Complain about groups, but don't pick on a specific race. Its terribly insulting for those who belong to it.
Originally Posted By basas <<But making rude comment about the French, or the Gay groups, or the Brazilians is so unfair! Just as unfair as those making rude comments about americans!>> It's not unfair when its true. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone in the 'group', but people wouldn't be saying such comments, or making such 'generalizations' if they hadn't noticed a large portion of the 'group' behaving in such ways numerous times. It’s always annoyed me when people start saying ‘no stereotypes are true’ and things of the sort because its usually just a PC move and much of the time, the stereotype is…well…TRUE…to a large extent. As I say, stereotypes don’t come from no-where.
Originally Posted By sg People also tend to notice groups and or others that are different from ourselves more, or if they reinforce the stereotypes we already believe. I agree that stereotypes come from somewhere. But I don't think its fair to say that they are true. I am not an American, and I've heard many negative comments about Americans during my travels. Certainly American groups can be considered obnoxious in another countries by the very fact that they are different: dress differently, speak another language, etc. I've personally encountered obnoxious americans while I've travelled through Europe. In fact lots of backpacking americans pretend they are Canadians. But I love the States and go there whennever I can. I don't paint everyone with the same brush. Personally, large groups of anything tend to be obnoxious if you are not in the group, from preschoolers, to seniors, to teens, to parents, to gays, to brazilians, etc. I don't want to get into an arguement about it. I was just encouraging us not to use disparaging comments about other races. We don't have to pretend others don't annoy us, but making blanket statements against others on an international site seems wrong. Just my two cents. Don't fry me for it.
Originally Posted By Kimrue Ok, I have to just say one thing....I'm all about being open minded and fair and giving people the benefit of the doubt..blah blah blah...BUT while it is wrong to generalize and stereotype, these "stereotypes" would not exist if there weren't some truths to them. I happen to belong to an ethnic group that is known for being "stupid." Ok? As soon as someone...ANYONE...stranger or not finds out my ethnicity, they feel a need to tell me a stream of jokes that may or may not offend me. One thing I will admit...some of the older people in my family ARE quite "simple," I'm not talking cross-eyed and ignorant, but yes, simpler, slower paced, basic lifestyles. I"ve also been known to come up with a few "Jessica Simpson-isms" from time to time.. I've learned to laugh about it and of course find some truth in the jokes. If you can't learn to laugh at yourself then you're going to be miserable and continue to become the "victim." My point is GET OVER IT...We ALL have a stereotype that we deal with. Every last one of us. Own it and love it...it makes you, YOU!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It isn't fair to make blanket statements about any race, or religion, or sexual orientation. People are rude, yes! Groups usually seem to be ruder, especially teenagers. Am I the only one to see hypocracy here ? not fair to make blanket comments about any group and then next sentence makes one ?
Originally Posted By sg Sigh, no one can win on these sites. I said race, religion and sexual orientation ...not age! teenagers are more boisterous and exhuberant to us older folks. (I'm 42 by the way...) But I'm going to shut up now. Best to keep my opinions to myself.
Originally Posted By basas <<I agree that stereotypes come from somewhere. But I don't think its fair to say that they are true>> Perhaps not all entirely true- but I do believe that these notions would not exist without some truth to them. Interesting how Europeans find Americans ‘rude’, while we (well…I’m Canadian) think the Europeans are quite rude. <<BUT while it is wrong to generalize and stereotype, these "stereotypes" would not exist if there weren't some truths to them.>> Exactly. <<People are rude, yes! Groups usually seem to be ruder, especially teenagers.>> Really I have seen many very well behaved groups (even of teens). There are many who do not behave though (I blame the chaperons) which gives them their bad reputation. <<But I'm going to shut up now. Best to keep my opinions to myself.>> This is a discussion board so please don’t feel you must keep your opinions to yourself! I actually find civilized discussions like this quite enjoyable!
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider <<I said race, religion and sexual orientation ...not age! teenagers are more boisterous and exhuberant to us older folks. (I'm 42 by the way...)>> And how is age different when making generalizations? Everytime during my teens (it wasn't too long ago, my last few trips in the last 10 years were 'teen' years) I wasn't loud or boisterous. YOU'RE making a blanket statement in the same breath you're bashing blanket statements - now I'm not saying teenagers on the whole aren't rude because I've encountered many rude teenagers as well so I can accept it when people say "Oh it's rude teenagers" because it is true in many cases but how is that different than me saying "Oh many of the French at WDW are quite rude" ? I'm not making up facts here, in fact I'd be willing to wager that the ratio of rude French people I've encountered at WDW is higher than the ratio of rude teenagers you've experienced in WDW. That is to say I'm sure you've seen more rude teenagers, but there are a lot more teenagers than French people at WDW so when compared in a ratio on a more even playing field I bet there are more rude French people at WDW than teenagers. I think you'd have gotten more respect for your post if you didn't go back on everything you had just argued with a statement like: "Groups usually seem to be ruder, especially teenagers. "
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<But I'm going to shut up now. Best to keep my opinions to myself.>> This is a discussion board so please don’t feel you must keep your opinions to yourself! I actually find civilized discussions like this quite enjoyable! < Absolutely-- we can all read post #71 -- and I nor anyone after me did not alter your statement -- you said what you said, if you believe it stick to it. But don't say people have to stop generalizing and then do the same. As the parent of two teens, I can tell you they many times are far less rowdy than some of the 20 and 30 something's and older people coming out of PI falling down drunk at WDW. Is this all of them..heck no so I wouldn;t say that about all of them as you say about teens. Teens are guilty before they do anything many times...and it is unfair. For those who are issues, they need to be addressed, but to say all teens act like that is incorrect. I am 50 and really like having teens around --both my kids played organized sports ( one playing in college)- and I can tell you these kids were a pleasure to be around -- and still are for my younger one. Part of me will always be a teen, it just gets to be a smaller part every year.
Originally Posted By sg So I've been thinking about what I was trying to say, and this is it: Groups that are not like ourselves tend to annoy us more. I was trying to be ironic about the age thing, using my age as an example. I said teenagers seem to be... I was trying to make a point by using my age. (Hence I'm older teenagers might annoy ME more, 40+ groups might annoy teenagers more...) Its hard to have a discussion on these boards, because conversations are alive, and you can tell how a person feels; when they are being ironic, when they are passionate. I certainly didn't want to sound a hypocrite! I love young people! I work in a University theatre department! Talk about exhuberance and energy. Personally, I feel uncomfortable with racist statements. And as for agist comments, if you knew me, you would know that I am always lobbying against them in my department. I hate generalizing I said I'd shut up, but here I am contradicting myself. I think I should just get back to lurking because I take these things very personally.
