Originally Posted By vbdad55 You're right. And while we're at it, why not go make some changes to Casablanca? I mean, that's even older! -- you realize that most kids under 30 have never seen this movie nor do they care about it right ? If it had to survive as a daily entity attraction, it would fail miserably- as much as I love it ! I may not like it either but the world moves forward.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<you realize that most kids under 30 have never seen this movie nor do they care about it right ?>> I seriously disagree. I'm a kid under 30 and almost everyone I know has seen the movie in one way or another. But you kinda missed the point of what I was saying. Just because it's old, doesn't give a new generation the right to change the story and flow of it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I agree it may not automatically give the right to change things - but I can guarantee you that you are wrong on the younger generation and a movie like Casablanca. DO you have teenages and 20 somethings ? I do and interact with their friends. They are unintersted as a whole in 30's 40's and 50's genre moves. recurring movies like Star Wars- Godfather etc more in their wheel house. Nomore than saying they'love' the music of the 60's- they may know it because of commericals etc. but they do not identify with it like someone my age does. check dvd sales of Casablanca and DVD sales of many crappy movies over the last15-20 years--- Disney attractions cannot completely stand still- as much as I too would like many of them too
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<DO you have teenages and 20 somethings ? I do and interact with their friends. They are unintersted as a whole in 30's 40's and 50's genre moves.>> I AM a 20 something and my sister is in her teens. The vast majority of the younger people I have come in contact with have seen and love the film. <<Disney attractions cannot completely stand still- as much as I too would like many of them too>> I completely agree. But there is change, and then there is change for the sake of change and changing an overall experience. The new hitchhiking ghost ending is fantastic, and keeps in line with the Mansion and it's flow. It's a superb change and I applaud the upgrade. The queue is not. Queues like Pooh and Space Mountain are in line with their respective attractions and their flow. The HM queue is not.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>You mean the cemetery WASN'T there before for 39yrs? REALLY......<<< Yes, it was there. And where was it located? Was it at the entrance to the covered walkway or just before you enter the building? >>>You're right. And while we're at it, why not go make some changes to Casablanca? I mean, that's even older!<<< Alright lets compare realities of the two here. They didn't change the mansion, only the Queue. The comparison would have to be that they didn't change the movie Casablanca, they did, however, change the advertising posters in the lobby. It's the same thing. The movie and the show stay in place, they just painted the door a different shade of black. I have to admit though that we are managing to spend a great deal of time on a subject with little or no consequence. I keep thinking that I might have discovered a cure for some type of serious disease during the time I have been devoting to the stupid queue line.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper And your DVD sales comparison is weak, IMO. It's human nature for people to buy the newest movies, so obviously the recent releases will sell better than the older ones. That doesn't really mean they're more loved. Movies that get re-released one DVD and Blur Ray rather than having their initial releases on the platform rarely get advertised, save for Disney's releases. I think if they were, the numbers would surprise you.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<They didn't change the mansion, only the Queue. The comparison would have to be that they didn't change the movie Casablanca, they did, however, change the advertising posters in the lobby. It's the same thing. >> False. The attraction starts in the queue. It's all part of the show.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>False. The attraction starts in the queue. It's all part of the show.<<< Wrong! The show starts behind the curtain, which is the door. They don't call it pre-show for nothing. The queue is the lobby where people wait to see the show.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^If that were the case, people working at Greeter and in the rest of the park wouldn't be called cast members. A Disney attraction's story begins when you queue up, and that story is intertwined with the rest of the land's story. That's how it works in Disney parks.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The new hitchhiking ghost ending is fantastic, and keeps in line with the Mansion and it's flow. It's a superb change and I applaud the upgrade. The queue is not." Which brings us right back to the point that most of your argument is founded on individual opinion and not based on any concrete edict handed down for generations from Walt Disney himself. You're making a far bigger deal out of this than is really necessary.
Originally Posted By Manfried <<Sorry, but that's not an unbiased position, wanting to see changes and new additions simply because it keeps your WDI buddies employed. That pretty much negates your complaints about the 'change haters.'>> No I did not have "buddies" who worked on it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Which brings us right back to the point that most of your argument is founded on individual opinion and not based on any concrete edict handed down for generations from Walt Disney himself.>> Obviously it wasn't handed down by walt himself. Walt wasn't alive when the final concept was realized. But the concrete comes in that it messes up the story structure and flow of the attraction. That's my beef with it. The thing is well done. It's not a piece of crap or low quality. Just messes up the story structure and intended tone of the mansion. <<You're making a far bigger deal out of this than is really necessary.>> Not really. Just discussing the intricacies of a theme park. Not a big deal at all. I do it for fun.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <And your DVD sales comparison is weak, IMO. It's human nature for people to buy the newest movies, so obviously the recent releases will sell better than the older ones. < by that logic then it would be human nature to gravitate only towards new attractions..and that isn't the case. Look at sales of CD/LP's each year-- who is always in the top 10-20 Beatles / Hendrix / Doors etc... all in repackaged formats If you want to just say you don't like the queue and don't see the fit- I am perfectly fine with that...but others see it as a fine fit and appropriate for today-- and another group sees it as meh ! there is no right/wrong answer here to insist upon
Originally Posted By vbdad55 does the queue really 'mess up' the flow more than a boatful of people on a riverboat going by and hooting and hollering...or a look across at Splash Mountain ?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<If you want to just say you don't like the queue and don't see the fit- I am perfectly fine with that...but others see it as a fine fit and appropriate for today-- and another group sees it as meh ! there is no right/wrong answer here to insist upon>> I didn't say liking it was wrong. Never did. If it was a completely separate entity, it's a nice looking fairly good looking set of effects. Hell, if it was placed at the end of the ride it would be spectacular. What I won't bend on is that it interferes with the designed flow and story structure of the mansion. Because that's a fact.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<does the queue really 'mess up' the flow more than a boatful of people on a riverboat going by and hooting and hollering...>> Yup. The riverboat is in theme with the land as well as the attraction as a whole. Doesn't mess up the flow at all. Neither does seeing Splash or Big Thunder. Obviously some sense of disbelief has to be kept. But the queue does indeed mess up the flow/story contained within the Haunted Mansion experience.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But the concrete comes in that it messes up the story structure and flow of the attraction. That's my beef with it." Your point is definitely valid, and you've made your opinion clear. So there's no need to continue to keep driving it home. "Hell, if it was placed at the end of the ride it would be spectacular." From a design perspective I totally agree Hokie, but at the exit it would be kind of pointless, don't you think? Disney is trying to add something extra for visitors to do while while waiting for the show to begin, not when they exit on their way to the next activity.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Your point is definitely valid, and you've made your opinion clear. So there's no need to continue to keep driving it home. >> I'm only repeating it because people seem intent on poking holes in it or quoting me and bringing up points that have nothing to do what I've posted. <<From a design perspective I totally agree Hokie, but at the exit it would be kind of pointless, don't you think? Disney is trying to add something extra for visitors to do while while waiting for the show to begin, not when they exit on their way to the next activity.>> In all honesty I think it's pointless where it is. The Haunted Mansion line is one that's constantly moving, save for maybe 2-5 minutes as you wait for the foyer doors to open. It in all honesty ADDS to your wait time if you go through it. And essentially, the new queue is still at the end of all the switchbacks, negating the stance that this was done to eliminate the boredom of them. So honestly, it's pointless where ever it goes, and I'd rather see it be pointless and fit in with the flow of the attraction rather than be pointless and awkwardly placed in the story.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt For some reason I was envisioning it somewhere along the way, not right before you walk in the door.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^Nope, it occupies the area where the old cemetery was. So now instead of just going into the waiting pen for the doors to open, you have the choice to go through the area. The same old switchbacks are still in place.
