Originally Posted By ChiMike >>The carribean is FINE, when theres no line, lol.<< (Rhetorical DLFAN, not pointed at u) No lines during Summer break? Good thing they went to the effort and cost to "enhance" it. Why, how can there not be 2 hr lines for Cap'n Jack? >>I will be shooting non-working hippos tomorrow.<< There's certainly nothing I can say to enhance on how large this already speaks. --- Good to hear you made someone's night DLFAN!
Originally Posted By ChiMike Just to add real quick... >>No lines during Summer break? Good thing they went to the effort and cost to "enhance" it. Why, how can there not be 2 hr lines for Cap'n Jack?<< And who would have thought that? Me. Right when it opened and I perceived the update to be disjointed and ineffective.
Originally Posted By karlg While they definitely need to close down attractions for major refirbs, the timing of this closing at the beginning of the summer season shows very poor planning/management. Normally a major refirb would start after Labor Day or after New Years. Not only is this a disappointment to guests that may only visit every few year, but it also takes out of commission one of the higher capacity attractions and thus adding to the wait at other attraction. There are really two problems in one with this one, first that they let the HM get so run down in the first place, and second that they timed the major refirb at the beginning of the busy summer season. We were at WDW just before the HM closed and got to ride it once (we knew it was about to close and went on it our first day in the MK). We hadn’t been to WDW in 6 years (I have been to DL a few times in between). Frankly, I came away very much unimpressed by how WDW is being run (see the Flash Pictures on Pirate topic I started). I felt like WDW was being very poorly run and I certainly don’t have any desire to go back any time soon. I had a much better time for 1.5 days at DL (that I went to a week later) than I had at WDW in 8.5 days.
Originally Posted By rockcow1 <<I had a much better time for 1.5 days at DL (that I went to a week later) than I had at WDW in 8.5 days>> Sad to say I agree!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 here's where the hope lies -- 10 years ago at DL things were falling apart left and right - and many of the same complaints we have about WDW were on the left coast as well. If they can fix that situation, they CAN fix the one at WDW....somehow they have to be motivated to do so.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I will be shooting non-working hippos tomorrow. At least Schweitzer Falls is fully working now! << The Hippos are easier to hit when they are not moving. What were they doing, refurb. of the bach of water. >> <<I had a much better time for 1.5 days at DL (that I went to a week later) than I had at WDW in 8.5 days>> Sad to say I agree! << While DL is considered the superior park over MK, I do not think that DLR can come close to WDW for a complete resort experience. As always this is just my opinion.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>here's where the hope lies -- 10 years ago at DL things were falling apart left and right - and many of the same complaints we have about WDW were on the left coast as well. If they can fix that situation, they CAN fix the one at WDW....somehow they have to be motivated to do so.<< Actually, I believe it's a whole different prediciment. Sure, DL was neglected but that also had to do with, at the time, DL being considered the red-headed step child of the Disney Co. and had something to do with the fact that they were about to triple the size of the property. WDW will never be treated like an orphan and it will not be tripled in size as quickly as DL was. This is an issue of it being too big and being treated too much like a printing-press for cash. It's going to take a heck of a lot more than a CM Matt to turn WDW. It CAN be DONE and I hope VERY much that it WILL be done someday. But it's going to take a heck lot more than a marketing anniversary to make that happen.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And this isn't a slam on you, RT, DVCDAD, or anyone else. This is not a slam on DVC. Actually, the opposite.. So, Since I started discussing things with you VBDAD I have always maintained that the growth of DVC allows WDW to get away with less than the standard care in regards to the parks. In past years you have refuted it that idea. You suggested that DVC allows a large contingent of regulars/members to keep the mouse's feet to the fire so to speak. (In 2004)...That DVC members would never allow Disney to slack off on the parks. I'm not sure how you feel 3+ years later and I do think you raised a valid idea of what could end up being a serious customer contingent who could be influential with the Mouse. But, it just seems to me 3+ years later that the quality has slipped farther, DVC has sold MANY more memberships, and Disney has received more cash and spent less on needed repair around the resort.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I didn't say that DVC members have a magic bullet, but yes I do believe at almost 100,000 families now they do wield more influence than the once in a while visitor. And actually I was of that opinion, but I believe credit for it's inception belongs to Spirit, and least that was his hope also. I still do not believe it is the cause for the conditions, and actually believe without the influx of cash from DVC it could actually be worse. Management is the one and only cause, and the desire to make every last red cent they can for the bottom line. Having more DVC units does not make them stop steam power washing the streets, not stop painting items that are in need of repair, or make them put a crapola playground where an E ticket once stood. That is corporate greed pure and simple. I can tell you small items, like the fact that they added a very nice slide to the OKW pool came from complaints about not having one for years, and although that resort was sold out for years, they invested the small amount of money needed to shut people up. Also the change to a decent brand of soap and shampoo in DVC units also a positive. The adding of the AP discount for DVC members was one of the top survey input requests from members -- some break on the admission media. Minor victories to be sure in the scheme of things, but again I believe yes the DVC members have some influence, but when it comes down to it, it is management that controls the rest of the issues based on the profits they want to turn. The largest group of shareholders and largest customers for major companies may complain about drops in service levels, from help desks, lack of being able to talk to a real person, even product quality, but that doesn't stop our large corps from off shoring 8 millions support jobs over the least 7 years to Brazil / India / China and elsewhere in the name of record profits does it ?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I didn't say that DVC members have a magic bullet, but yes I do believe at almost 100,000 families now they do wield more influence than the once in a while visitor. And actually I was of that opinion, but I believe credit for it's inception belongs to Spirit, and least that was his hope also.>> I did say that, thanks. And I do believe it now. I didn't five years ago that's for sure. But now the ranks are growing and many folks have been DVCers for a while. They can't be happy with so many aspects of WDW ... and they do have power. I'm not sure they even realize how much. But if I BOUGHT a vacation ownership with DVC, they'd be replacing carpeting in my units and painting on virtually every trip. I have to believe there are plenty of DVCers who say 'I paid $28,000, plus my dues, plus my APs and this unit is falling apart, the MK is filthy and they keep closing things at Epcot without opening new ones ... and now they're making me make meal plans 180 days in advance?!!?!?!' I have to believe those folks are going to complain before they opt to sell out. We'll see, I guess. But Mike is quite right in that DL was a totally different situation and much easier to 'fix' ... WDW's neglect spreads across 28,000 acres, four parks and 30,000 plus resort rooms. And as for Mansion closing now, it was deemed 'unacceptable' to have it closed for MNSSHP and those now start in mid-September.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ since there really is no 'down' period any more, I have no issue with the HM being closed....I am just glad they finally did it. Potc was closed my last trip, it didn't ruin my vacation... and yes, HM should be open for Halloween
