Originally Posted By Bob Paris "'d be curious to know about the use of scooters and other mobility devices in other countries. My gut tells me it's more of an American thing" You are right. We hardly have them here in Australia. People here would see it more as an indulgence and "giving in" to a sedentary way of life.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad <<<People here would see it more as an indulgence and "giving in" to a sedentary way of life.>>> For some people it may be. But for alot of people it isn't a choice and others can't judge. for alot of people the their problem is not apparent. My Mother has not cartilage in her knees. The longer she walks the more irritation and pain it generates. She looks completely normal and when we went to Disney she could walk normally (although now , years later she visibly hobbles along) but needed the ECV to prevent that escalating pain. That is why I have no problem with the ECV and try to be courteous to them in the parks. The problem I see for ECVs is that a consciencious driver will try to keep a space in front of them while driving so that they don't hit the people in front of them. People constantly are stepping into this buffer area in crowds because it is the only opening and this makes it very difficult for the ECV driver to make any progress without having to constantly stop for people jumping in the gap. I think that's why after a while sometimes the driver gives up and just starts going at people and makes them get out of the way or get bumped.
Originally Posted By jkayjs <<But I am convinced this is also one of those 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few ... or the one.'>> Well said Spirit Spock. Since I work in health care I am all to familiar with the needs of the few outweighing the needs of the many. Before anyone comes @ me let me assure you I advocate for folks that are medically impaired one way or another. That's part of my job & I do it well. That being said let me assure you that these folks KNOW their 'rights' & are not shy about demanding them. The real issue shouldn't be 'rights' it should be 'needs'. Yes maybe you have the right to use a Segway but do you NEED too. I assure you that the man that has difficulty sitting & walking is rare indeed & note it says he has difficulty sitting not that he can't. The ECV/WC will do for almost everyone. I have the need to the access of food/water/shelter/healthcare. Now there may be many things I WANT but guess what you can't have everything you want or atleast you shouldn't be able too. My mother has breathing problems, the last time we took her I pushed her all over the park in a WC. I considered it a win/win. She was able to enjoy herself without having to stop every few feet to catch her breath & I got the pleasure of her company while working off a few unwanted pounds & improving my own lung capacity. We are truely a country of entitlement & PC run amuck & unfortunately we haven't seen the end of it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Segways in the parks would be a disaster. I've tried them at Epcot and they are not easy to control. Sure, with experience I'm sure a person can become pretty good at it. But how can you assure that a guest wanting to rent one has the necessary experience?
Originally Posted By sjhym33 I cant tell you how many times I was hit with an ECV while working at the parks. Segway or ECV, they are both dangerous in the wrong hands.
Originally Posted By barboy ///My Mother has not cartilage in her knees....... but needed the ECV to prevent that escalating pain./// Just a guess here but I'd bet that she didn't eat her way to be 300 lbs. either nor sit on her butt and not ever move her body year after year when she had the ability to do so. As far as I'm concerned no Segways/ECV's(unmotorized are OK) for those who: lack enough self respect to exercise their bodies and/or control their calorie intake and become too big to walk....for goodness sake at least use arms to move the wheelchair instead of relying on a motor. decided to drink/eat/smoke/inject something in their bodies which caused them to drive a car into a tree or worse take out a family of 3 on the roadways became a cripple because he/she tried to stick a gun in a cashier's face at a 7-11 but the cashier pulled out a bat and used it on some legs or like to sport hunt or mess with animals and the animal mauled them into a disability whereby mobility is now very limited.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad <<<Just a guess here but I'd bet that she didn't eat her way to be 300 lbs. either nor sit on her butt and not ever move her body year after year when she had the ability to do so.>>> Actually she is pretty small, but at 76 if she wants to gain a little , who cares?
Originally Posted By Mr X Barboy, I assume you have a comprehensive plan in which we can all separate the "deserving" folks with disabilities from the ones who "did it to themselves"? If not, perhaps you should shut up.
Originally Posted By hightp I don't see the harm in Disney requesting a doctor's note before issuing an ECV. Back in 2005 when we visited WDW, before my wife had her knee surgery, we rented a wheelchair. My wife was suprised to find out that just anyone could walk up and get one. A dr's note may cut out some of the abusers.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I don't see the harm in Disney requesting a doctor's note before issuing an ECV. >>> Except that that would be illegal per the ADA. That's the whole issue with the Segway matter as far as I'm concerned. Specifically: <<< If Disney allows Segways into their parks, I would want to ride one, too. WOuldn't everyone then want to ride one? >>> That's the problem right there, not the few people that use Segways on a daily basis for their disabilities. Just like they can't restrict who can use a wheelchair or ECV in the park, if Segways were allowed in the park, then everyone would be allowed to use them. We've had reports here of high school cheerleaders using wheelchairs so as to not wear their legs out before their competitions at WDW, and no doubt there are some in ECV's that do so for convenience at WDW and don't use them ordinarily. But there really isn't the "fun factor" with those devices like there is with a Segway. Considering how well known it is that a visit to WDW involves a lot of walking and tires even the healthiest person, there is not a doubt in my mind that if Segways were allowed in the park, there would instantly crop up an industry of third-party Segway rental companies near WDW that would rent on a daily basis and deliver directly to your resort, just like there is for ECVs. To repeat the first quote I made: <<< I don't see the harm in Disney requesting a doctor's note before issuing an ECV. >>> Well, actually I suppose Disney could claim to prohibit recreational use of Segways and allow them only to accommodate disabilities, but the thing is, they cannot require proof of disability even for someone that visually appears to be in perfect health. Soon word would spread and miraculously everyone coming to the parks with a Segway would claim to have a medical need. Just look at how out of control the abuse of disability passes at DL became until they reformed the system - it's shocking at just what scale people will claim to be disabled in order to get what they want.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<Barboy, I assume you have a comprehensive plan in which we can all separate the "deserving" folks with disabilities from the ones who "did it to themselves"? If not, perhaps you should shut up. >> Oh yes, I am patting Mr X on the back. Thank you.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad The problem is you can't generalize "who did it to themselves". Does the person whose condition prevents them from exercising mean thay did it to themselves. Who among us wouldn't gain weight quickly if we could no longer move around very well. It's a chicken or egg problem. Are some ECV users obese because they have to use an ECV or do they use an ECV because they are obese. For that matter generalizing about overweight people in a negative way is very small minded. Each person is different and each has a story to tell of how they got in that condition. Very few people choose to be obese. But you know what? If they are happy, then let them enjoy their life. As for trying to assess who needs an ECV, it's impossible. Many conditions are invisible like a herniated disc, knee problems, hip problems, foot problems, cardiac problems. Many things can affect a persons ability to tour the parks. If an ECV will help someone enjoy their time then give them an ECV. I just don't think that many people will pay that much money for an ECV and the inconvenience that accompanies it unless they need it.
Originally Posted By barboy bobb, do you ever think for yourself? ---I guess not based on your mindless posts day after day.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Are some ECV users obese because they have to use an ECV/// YES, obviously ///or do they use an ECV because they are obese./// YES again, obviously Both scenarios happen often independent of each other--- it's not a 'this or that'/'one but not the other' but both.
Originally Posted By barboy Now Mr. X I know that you're not suggesting that with each feeling/opinion that I post that I have to have some plan to fix annoyances, right?? I mean can't one just post a position without having to produce some corrective action plan. My oppinion is that those who made decisions like eating their way to 300 lbs. or crashing their cars while under the influence of toxins/drugs don't deserve ECV's nor my sympathy. There are countless things that people 'rag' about without putting forth a workable plan to fix the problem because sometimes there is no fair way to fix----and this ECV topic just might be one of them.
Originally Posted By barboy bobb, I'm sorry for that remark-- it was unfair and uncalledfor. I'm out of LP until I clear my head.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but next time, the name is Bobbe
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad <<<Both scenarios happen often independent of each other--- it's not a 'this or that'/'one but not the other' but both>>> <<<My oppinion is that those who made decisions like eating their way to 300 lbs. or crashing their cars while under the influence of toxins/drugs don't deserve ECV's nor my sympathy.>>> My point is that you have no idea how the person got to the point where they are. As you get older you will realize that your body doesn't remain the way you want it too and sometimes those changes are not in your ability to control. I played Basketball in my 20s at a very high level, once playing in a game with Michael Jordan and Kenny Smith. But after all those years of activity I'm left with a broken down body and chronic pain. After numerous injuries, reconstructed knee, herniated discs, finger dislocations, broken bones, my body is not in the condition I envisioned in my youth. I'm on the path to needing an ECV to tour the parks and yes I have gained weight since my activity is now limited. But I would like to think that when that day comes no one will be judging whether or not I deserve to use an ECV. The decision should be mine and I won't feel guilty about it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Now Mr. X I know that you're not suggesting that with each feeling/opinion that I post that I have to have some plan to fix annoyances, right?? I mean can't one just post a position without having to produce some corrective action plan.*** I suppose it would depend on just how inflammatory the rant happened to be.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I played Basketball in my 20s at a very high level, once playing in a game with Michael Jordan and Kenny Smith.*** Yeah, but did you win?
