Originally Posted By Mr X **<<For instance?>> Well, health care for one. According to the House bill, my current health insurance plan would actually be illegal in 2013. It's absurd.** I'd have to see some specifics, I'm not aware of any health plans being outlawed. Perhaps that's somewhere in the "death panels" section of the text and I missed it? **<<Some taxes are way too low in America today, I hope he increases them significantly.>> I couldn't disagree more.** You can disagree all you want, but the fact is historically and globally the current tax rates in America are as low as they've ever been for a privileged few, and it shows. **<<What proposed "massive spending" are we talking here? The only massive spending I've seen have been the wars (another bipartisan effort to say the least).>> Um, healthcare? The government has never operated anything efficiently and we now expect them to magically operate healthcare more efficiently than the private sector? Not a chance. The price tag on that is way understated.** Um, how much does our government spend on healthcare NOW? As long as we're going to spend a ton of money, I'd at least like to see everyone who wants it get some coverage out of it.
Originally Posted By Spooky Ghost <<our understanding in my family has always been when God's children sin God sometimes lifts the vail of protection>> I just only got to post 8, but HOLY CRAP!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Um, healthcare? The government has never operated anything efficiently and we now expect them to magically operate healthcare more efficiently than the private sector? >> As you regurgitate the right-wing talking points, I think you missed out on the actual facts. The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world, covering fewer people than other industrialized nations, and resulting in worse patient outcomes than nearly all other western countries. Is that the kind of efficiency you hail in the private sector? It's not only inefficient, it's ineffective! The current system is also going to explode our federal deficits when the cost of healthcare exceeds the payroll contributions to Medicare. How do you propose we solve that problem? Do you advocate that we just drive the train off the cliff? Should we impose massive taxes to keep up with Medicare costs? Should we eliminate Medicar altogether, and double the number of uninsured people in this country? What is your solution?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I don't really see any need to feign outrage or be dishonest about my reaction. > I don't think you were being anything but honest. <If I thought it was offensive, I wouldn't have laughed.> I just wonder if you'd have laughed if the target were different. As you said yourself later... <There's no way to know if something would strike me as "really, really funny" until I actually saw it (a LOT would depend on how clever the joke and stuff like that, too...I've read some right wing "humor" and it doesn't amuse me, nor does redneck humor by and large)> I normally love the Onion. I thought the Beck piece was funny too, until I took a step back and wondered how I'd have felt if it had been put out by right-wingers with the exact same script, only substituting "Barack Obama" for "Glenn Beck." (Or, say, Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank, to take two people who a lot of right-wingers just can't stand.) I realized that if any of those people had been the target, and you had all these people talking about how disappointed they were that they weren't dead, it would have struck me as kinda creepy. And if so, is it not also kinda creepy even when the target is Glenn Beck? I don't even know - just asking. Besides, I prefer humor that takes on the person directly for his actions and statements; humor that directly shows up the tactics of someone like Beck for what they are, and exposes his statements for the garbage they are, like the Daily Show or Colbert will often do, rather than musing on them dying a horrible painful death. Yet, I admit, I laughed when I first saw it. So there you go.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <The government has never operated anything efficiently and we now expect them to magically operate healthcare more efficiently than the private sector? Not a chance. > Actually, a terrific chance, if done properly. What's so efficient about our current system? Nothing. In fact, it's horribly inefficient. Doctors and hospitals currently spend 25-30 percent of their time dealing with administration. That simply doesn't happen in single-payer systems. (Not that what's being proposed here is single payer, but you get my point.) Here, doctors and hospitals have to deal with a complete mishmosh of plans and rules, that differ greatly between companies (and even within the same company depending on which policy we're talking about) and are often arcane and extremely capricious. It takes up too much of a doctor's time, and requires doctors and hospitals to hire extra staff just to deal with it, which of course adds to our costs. AND, on top of that, for the privilege of this "efficiency," the insurance companies themselves take 25-30% off the top. This is a big reason we pay so much more than other countries, yet our outcomes are worse, as SG points out.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I just wonder if you'd have laughed if the target were different.*** I definitely understand your point, and I wouldn't claim that the Onion is not going over the top with this stuff. They really do have to go with the cards they're dealt though, it has to be someone who is reviled *almost* universally for something like that to work (thus the ability to do so to Bush, but only at the very end of his presidency). So again, I'd have to say I might find a similar skit funny if it were directed towards someone like Lieberman (someone I personally revile, ANY someone who is nearly universally disliked for so many reasons), but I'd have a WTF moment if they did it towards President Obama. But that's not a Democrat/Republican thing per se, except that there seem to be a large contingent of loathsome Republicans to chose from (as I said, you've got your Lieberman types, your Blagojevich, you could stretch it to include Clinton and perhaps Edwards and even Carter...but it's just a lot funnier to go after the many many evil republicans out there and yes, gallows humor towards those guys really *does* amuse me).
Originally Posted By Mr X Enjoyed reading the rest of your posts there too Dabob, no need for a point by point since, as usual, I agree with most if not all of what you have to say.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Maybe I'm feeling extra-charitable these days, even towards Glenn Beck, crazy person.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Glenn Beck did a little pantomime bit on his show a while back where he joked about putting poison into Nancy Pelosi's glass of wine. To him, this was high comedy and definitely "in bounds". Maybe the Onion piece worked for him. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJr4mCN24vY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...4mCN24vY</a> It's at about 2:30 on this clip. I suggest advancing right to it if you can't stomach more than a few seconds of Beck's eye-rolling "LOOK HOW IRONIC I CAN SOUND" mugging at a time.
Originally Posted By DAR **<<Some taxes are way too low in America today, I hope he increases them significantly.>> Come to Wisconsin, they really want to stick it to us with taxes. They just proposed a wheel tax in Milwaukee County which thankfully was veto by the board.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Glenn Beck did a little pantomime bit on his show a while back where he joked about putting poison into Nancy Pelosi's glass of wine. To him, this was high comedy and definitely "in bounds". > Okay, I'm feeling a little less charitable towards Glenn Beck, crazy person. Still, it seems to me that if that's offensive, so is musing about killing him, even if meant as humor.
Originally Posted By Spyderman Glenn beck has got to be the most annoying person of all time. The way his voice breaks when he talks and starts to cry whenever Obama does something "controverstial" makes me wish someone would punch him in the face repitedly.
Originally Posted By Spyderman I remember seeing him on O'reileys program saying the same sh*t he says on his show and o'reiley had this face the whole time like "wow this guy actually believse the bulls**t we feed people"
