Originally Posted By ecdc >>Newsflash: we ration care in the US too, only it's done by HMO functionaries (whose profit motive mandates denial of care) rather than government ones.<< We have a winner. This is the great Republican lie on healthcare. "Do you want a bureaucrat in the government making healthcare decisions for you?" they sinisterly intone. Well, since a bureaucrat in an insurance company is making healthcare decisions for me right now, I have no problem with the government taking it over. At least with the government, I know it's not for-profit. The entire system right now is based on the idea that we have to provide less care to make a profit. How does that lead to a healthy society? Some things were not meant to be capitalist ventures, and healthcare is absolutely one of them.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <At least with the government, I know it's not for-profit.> Well, at least not directly. Or in an ideal world.
Originally Posted By alexbook I keep hearing people tell me I'll lose my choice of what doctor to see. I don't have much of a choice now. I have a "primary care provider" who's assigned by my HMO. If I don't like him, I can switch to another, but only once a year and only during a small window of time (I think it's the second half of August, but I'm not sure). If I want to make an appointment with my "primary care provider," I may have to wait for weeks. If I want to see a specialist, I have to get approval from my "primary care provider" first. How is a government plan going to be any worse?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan We also ration care here by making insurance coverage out of reach of millions of Americans. Millions of people unable to get routine medical exams and such that could prevent more serious illness down the road.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I do agree that our health care system SUCKS. Mostly the insurance companies. I don't know the right fix.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <How is a government plan going to be any worse?> By denying you any choice at all.
Originally Posted By alexbook >><How is a government plan going to be any worse?> By denying you any choice at all.<< Why would they do that? Medicare doesn't. My mom's actually got more choices with Medicare than I do with Blue Cross.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy <How is a government plan going to be any worse?> <By denying you any choice at all.> Are there really all that many choices to be made? We make this sound like healthcare is akin to shopping for cars. What color do you want? Leather or cloth? Automatic or manual? I've been under the government's healthcare system all my adult life. I've never really thought about any choices that would need to be made about the care I receive. Sometimes they give me a list of providers and ask me to choose one. I never have any idea if one is any different than the othere, so I might as well choose by throwing a dart at a dartboard. When I get sick, I get seen by a physician. When I need a procedure, it gets done. What more do you really need? The whole notion of "choice" in healthcare is really absurd. I've had one instance in nearly 20 years where I was dissatisfied with a government provided physician -- and without much effort at all, I was able to see someone else. Don't fall for the scare tactics of the far right. They are only advocating what the insurance industry wants them to advocate because that is who is paying them off.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ***>><How is a government plan going to be any worse?> By denying you any choice at all.<< Why would they do that? Medicare doesn't. My mom's actually got more choices with Medicare than I do with Blue Cross.*** More scare tactics. Gotta love it.
Originally Posted By piperlynne AND take United Healthcare for example. A few years back MANY doctors were opting out of accepting that insurance. Even Swedish Hospital in Seattle was going to as a blanket STOP accepting the insurance. Doctors don't have to accept a particular brand of insurance. So you could have private health insurance and still not be covered. Or like Group Health, where you have to see a Group Health doctor in a Group Health clinic. Where's the choice there? And if you don't like the government health options. ..buy your own private insurance (no one is taking that option off the table).
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<My mom's actually got more choices with Medicare than I do with Blue Cross.>> Ditto for the HMOs like Kaiser. In fact, when my mom had the Medicare/HMO plan with Blue Shield CA, she had more options (such as chiropractic) through Medicare than I had with my regular HMO policy! Medicare patients who sign up with HMOs have more options available and at lower co-pays than non-Medicare members with individual policies. So don't tell me I'll be denied choices with a public plan like Medicare. That's nonsense. I would gladly welcome a public option like Medicare for my existing HMO membership. It would cost me thousands less each year and provide a broader range of services. Plus, I'll never have to worry about being dropped from coverage or denied coverage because of pre-existing medical conditions or age. For the past decade, I've been literally trapped in my existing HMO because of a pre-existing condition; no other medical provider, insurer or HMO, will give me an individual policy. I'm self-employed because that's how 95% of my industry works, so employer-furnished insurance is out of the question. I can't even get insurance through my alumni association because of pre-existing conditions! One quick and easy way to start the health care reform ball rolling, is to level the playing field for everybody, by making it illegal for health care providers to deny coverage based on age or pre-existing conditions. Massachusetts and Vermont already have this in place; no citizen can be denied coverage for any reason. Granted, it's doesn't address the pricing issue, but at least it makes health care/insurance available. Doing that one simple thing would be a start. Much more needs to be done, but at least self-employed individuals or those working for small businesses who don't provide health care benefits can get covered. It puts more players into the system, and keeps the providers from holding existing members hostage by denying them care, knowing that other providers won't cover them. Competition is a good thing. It's about time the health care industry actually had it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Don't fall for the scare tactics of the far right. They are only advocating what the insurance industry wants them to advocate because that is who is paying them off.*** We have a winner.
Originally Posted By DAR <<I have no problem with the government taking it over. At least with the government, I know it's not for-profit.>> If government wants to take over health care that's fine, just as long as waiting in doctor's office doesn't become like waiting at the DMV.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If government wants to take over health care that's fine, just as long as waiting in doctor's office doesn't become like waiting at the DMV.<< I don't know who your doctor is. Sometimes waiting for mine *is* like waiting at the DMV. I've waited over an hour plenty of times. But I know what you mean. We're all naturally a little reticent when it comes to the idea of government running healthcare. We usually like them to do stuff that isn't so...life and death - roads and the mail. But honestly, we really couldn't do much worse than we're doing now. We're at the bottom of the barrel of industrialized nations.
Originally Posted By alexbook >>If government wants to take over health care that's fine, just as long as waiting in doctor's office doesn't become like waiting at the DMV.<< Too late. It already is (and sometimes it's worse).
Originally Posted By piperlynne Yeah. .my doctor (although my dentist is far worse) is always late for my appointments. Guaranteed to wait at least 30 min after appointment time to actually see them. But I don't think anyone is suggesting government run clinics (or are they? they're suggesting government run insurance. big difference) But right now, it seems like this is just a jumble as far as what's on - or not quite on the table in the senate. There's far too much appeasement going on. *I* think they need to be a little more aggressive, a little bolder and just say. .. this is what is going to work, cost the least and ensure every citizen is covered. Right now its more like. . well we don't want to piss anyone off so lets compromise on this aspect. And in turn, they are succeeding in pissing off everyone.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>They ration care.<< A new study shows 40% of Americans are already rationing their care. They delay their care - and that's usually older people, so it's harder for them to recover. Our system is a disaster. We let the capitalists run it, and just like the banks and the mortgage industry, they put profits ahead of people, and here we are. Then, when the only entity powerful enough and large enough, the federal government, steps in to clean it up, people whine and toss out labels like socialism and tyranny.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/euRegulatoryNews/idUSN2146504720090622" target="_blank">http://www.reuters.com/article...20090622</a> Sorry, here's the link.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^Scary stuff. God forbid anything serious happens to me while we're in this economic rut. I shudder to think what would happen if I were to get laid off and the have a medical crisis. Following is an interesting clip about a single payer rep finally being allowed to testify to Congress. <a href="http://current.com/items/90255229_health-care-a-human-right.htm" target="_blank">http://current.com/items/90255...ight.htm</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc Someone asked the President about the public plan today. Polls show the public overwhelmingly supports a public plan. It's proven to work, and work well, in other countries. We're one of the lowest of the industrialized nations for healthcare. Yet some in congress - mostly Republicans but some Democrats - are still fighting it. It's so ridiculously shameless. These are people who get donations from the healthcare industry and who are invested in defending big business. The hutzpah is remarkable.
