Originally Posted By trekkeruss Cesar Millan, the "Dog Whisperer," rarely uses a pinch collar. Most of the time he just uses a cord fashioned into a slip-lead.
Originally Posted By LuLu What I saw on all the dogs on Friday's show, I'm pretty sure, was a choke chain. The pinch or prong collar is supposed to be more humane than the choke chain. It may look bad, but it doesn't seem to hurt much. It doesn't choke the dog at all (at least not mine, but she fits in a size small which has smaller links and prongs than the one pictured). The prongs aren't pointy at all so it just sort of pokes the dog when you pull on it. Deb, I can tell you that my dog MUCH prefers this to the so-called Gentle Leader, which makes her crazy. Very irritating. Also, when I saw on that site that the gentle leader can be dangerous for excitable dogs, I knew what they meant. I've often thought my dog could break her neck the way she jumps around when excited while on a walk. I'd never seen or heard of these before fodd mentioned it. They may sell them and you just haven't noticed them. BT, that's a great idea, do pass the contact info along to me! Altho right now, I think I may be getting somewhere
Originally Posted By LuLu Altho I must add, I might use a slip collar or choke chain if it worked where nothing else did. I see it as a temporary measure to get lasting results, which benefit the dog as much as the members of the household.
Originally Posted By beamerdog lol about how it looks. When I saw that for the first time in 1998, I actually tried it on to see how bad it was. If I didn't cause it to "pinch", I could barely feel it. And, think, dog's skin has much more fat around the neck AND fur. When the trainers heard that I had tried it on, they couldn't stop laughing. Yeh, it does look nasty, but realize that you rarely if ever have to use it once the dog "gets it". Do you ride? Sometimes horses wear a bit which pinches their tongue. I bet people don't think about this when they see horses being ridden. I've never seen the dog whisperer, but I know that most dogs will obey me with just a look or a soft spoken command. My son has the same ability. Many years ago I took a class with a show handler who explained that he imagined a tiny wire running from his brain, down his neck to his arm, thru his hand to the leash and up to the dog's brain when he handled novice dogs. I've seen him do a leadless heel with an 8 week old puppy after walking around a gym twice with the pup. The pinch collar is a training aid that is safer for the dog than a choke collar when being used by a novice. Different training aids are used at different points in training with dogs. Lulu may never have to use the pinch collar after a month (or even a week). But if her dog is bone-headed, she (the dog, lol) may need it on just as a reminder to behave and not drag Lulu around and hurt her (Lulu). And some dogs never need anything harsh. I never had anything but a little show collar on my 230 lb male great dane. The pinch collar is more "harsh" than some other training aids, but remember the situation that Lulu is in. Hopefully the little doggie will be perfect soon and not need any "tugs".
Originally Posted By beamerdog Wow, I've never seen a pinch set up so high on a dog's neck. We have them halfway higher than where the site says not to have them, lol. They are right - if you can slip it off the dogs neck over her head, it's too loose. And I've always had the lease attached to the large ring. <<<<going to ask the trainers about the under the ear placement. (that's where we put the choke collar during dog shows only for control on the danes - since the correction is in a tender spot, we never used it as a training aid) The people at Canine Partners never use choke collars. Lulu, you don't have to speak even at a normal tone to your dog. After she starts to behave, just give her a very soft spoken command. Sometimes when Jackson has made the wrong choice, but not neccessarily been "bad", I use the word "wrong" said quietly. He knows that he's got to try something else, but I'm not really "yelling" at him. Lulu's assignment for the week: Buy a clicker (they cost about a buck). Get Pupperoni or some soft treats that you can tear or cut in small pieces. Once a day for 5 or better yet, 10 minutes: Sit down someplace comfortable, but not on the floor. Have your dog next to you. Watch her closely. Everytime she glances directly at you, click and give her a treat. (If she's snapping at your hand, let me know - there's a way to fix that.) Don't say anything other than good dog (insert name) after you click. You must click the instant she looks at you. The first day or two she might take a little longer to look at you, but you'll be amazed at how fast she learns! After the first day, she should be looking at you for longer times each time before you click and treat. Next week we'll add a command and see how you can use this to help her listen to you.
Originally Posted By LuLu beamer, do tell about the snapping. She does get very excited about treats and has done that before. I'm hoping this won't be too hard, as she has several things she learned easily and remembers without prompting. She always sits when her dinner bowl is brought out, sits after her walk to get her collar off, sits when she wants a bit of what we're eating. Last night she did better when 2 loose dogs came over, too! Fortunately they were very gentle and their owner was right there, but I wanted to see how it went. I know Cesar is right about the owner just having the right attitude!
Originally Posted By beamerdog All my puppies nipped me out of excitement when I first started click and treat. First off, they're excited to see the food, plus they're excited that they got something right! Start working on not nipping NOT when you're doing click and treat. Put a regular sized treat in between your first and middle fingers in a closed hand with about 3/4" of the treat showing. (Kinda like presenting her with your fist with a small part of the treat sticking out in a friendly way.) Don't say anything to her - that will get her more excited. Remember she really doesn't want to be nipping you, only the treat. Present the treat to the dog and she'll only be able to grab some of the treat. A hard treat like a Milk-bone works best here since you don't want to have her nip off the end of the treat, but sort of have to hold it in her mouth to get you to release it. She might not have control over herself at this point so... Bop her lightly in the front of the muzzle (NOT her nose - that'll hurt)and say "no" firmly at the same time. What you're trying to do is surprise her, not hurt her. Your fist will be in the right position to just make a little pressure on the area around her front teeth. Remember, you're just trying to let her know that she's supposed to be nice to "the hand". Sweetly remind her on the next treat with a soft spoken command of "gentle" when you present the treat. Hold on to that treat between your fingers so she's only successful at getting it when she takes it politely. Pretty soon you'll be able to give a tiny little morsel held between your thumb and forefinger Now when you do click and treat you can click, say "gentle" and then give the treat. I'm thrilled that she's doing better already. She's definitely a smart cookie if she can sit to get her food! Oh, and if and when you start click and treat training for real, you should cut down on her food so she won't gain weight from the treats. I sometimes just take out some of my dogs' kibble from one of their meals and use that for treats.
Originally Posted By debtee <Deb, I can tell you that my dog MUCH prefers this to the so-called Gentle Leader, which makes her crazy. Very irritating. Also, when I saw on that site that the gentle leader can be dangerous for excitable dogs, I knew what they meant. I've often thought my dog could break her neck the way she jumps around when excited while on a walk.> Ok thanks Lulu. I do agree about the gentle leader as I used that on Woody as a puppy and he went nuts and couldn't stand something on his nose, so I ditched it very quickly. Lucky for me my boys did respond to training so they don't pull my arm off when walking them, so I use a harness on them. I'm pretty sure that pinch collar is not here yet as I frequent lots of doggie training days and dog shows and have never seen it for sale.
Originally Posted By Big Thunder <<"I used that on Woody as a puppy">> man I am yearning for a GR puppy soooo bad. [sigh]
Originally Posted By debtee <man I am yearning for a GR puppy soooo bad. [sigh]> Hey BT I should show you some pix of woody & Tobs as puppies...you wouldn't be able to resist them and another Goldie will be coming into your house soon ...I feel it! lol Not that your boy could ever be replaced, just that you need another soft furry friend!
Originally Posted By Big Thunder I dont wanna derail this topic more than I already have. Lulu, I will get the info this weekend when I take dog back to Camarillo, then I'll e-mail you. Debtee, sure pics of Woody & Toby are welcomed. I memer seeing some a couple years ago, just too cute, especially the pics of a mischievous mud mess ;-) [side note: we are currently searching for a Golden puppy, hopefully from a line similar to Sport's unique size and coat]
