Originally Posted By dshyates "Every single Jewish Holocaust story is different, and it differs from every country. Here's a small list of what Hitler did to Jews: Before the Mass-Murders Jews were prohibited to walk into many stores, restaurants, etc. Jews had to be identified with a Star of David. (Danish Jews, however, did not have to wear the Star) and had to have a J on their passports, etc. Jews had to give up jewelry, food, etc. Jews had reduced rations on their cards. During the Mass-Murders Polish Jews were forced in ghettos, then moved toy camps like Auschwitz. Jews were forced in cattle-cars from anywhere to 2-7 days without food, water, etc. Jews were beaten, starved, etc. Jews were threatened Some made unrealistic and grotesque experiments on Jewish people. Jews were gassed and burned. Read more: <a href="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What...2U9dT3H5" target="_blank">http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What...2U9dT3H5</a> Cathy thinks marriage is between one man and one woman." Donny, I have stood in the gas chamber in Auschwitz. My parents best friends were in Treblinka. And am close personal friends with a couple who the wife walked from the Ukraine to Istanbul at the age of 7 and the husband rode from Moscow to Istanbul under the belly of a box car. I am fully aware of what happened during the Holocaust. Dan Cathey is supporting groups that: * Support the Ugandan Death Penalty for Homosexuals (Extermination) *Imprisoning Homosexuals (concentration camps) *Are denying Civil rights such as right to employment, housing, and commerce (meaning that gays can be denied jobs, renting apartments, or patronizing businesses) *support the right to bully children claiming that it is their Religious Right to bully children. Dan Cathy is justifying all these actions for the exact same reason Hitler used to exterminate the Jews. I beg you to please actually read the quote: “I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.” - Adolf Hitler
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But then again I don't see how Chick Fil A can be held responsible for how a 3rd party charity spends their donations.<< That makes not-a-lick-of-sense. If I donate to a charity that blows up abortion clinics, are you saying I'm not responsible if they ... blow up an abortion clinic? Get serious. The Rev. Wright thing is so obviously irrelevant that I'm not even going to address it, other to say that I'm disappointed that you even brought it up. Regardless of that, you're still off in the weeds, though. Chick-Fil-A, the COMPANY (not just their CEO), has stated that they are opposed to gay marriage. Period. How they choose to support that position is secondary. The fact that they're doing it at all deserves a boycott. The argument that these organizations they support also do other stuff no longer holds water. The fact that every "I'm-not-a-bigot" bigot in the country converged on the place to support that position tells you that, well, America sucks.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 >>But then again I don't see how Chick Fil A can be held responsible for how a 3rd party charity spends their donations.<< That makes not-a-lick-of-sense. If I donate to a charity that blows up abortion clinics, are you saying I'm not responsible if they ... blow up an abortion clinic? Get serious.<< How does it not make sense. There is no evidence that Chick Fil A knew that the money was spent on a homophobic agenda. Some charities sound legit, but after the donation, it is revealed, they are not. Not everyone audits every charity they donate to, to make sure that charity is not supporting certain agendas. For an organization that donates millions per year, it's even harder. You can't expect any company or individual to fully audit a charity they give to.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 If I donate to a charity that blows up abortion clinics, are you saying I'm not responsible if they ... blow up an abortion clinic? Get serious.<< That makes no sense, if a charity does that they are breaking the law, no charity that Chick Fil A gave to, broke the law....
Originally Posted By dshyates Exodus International was instrumental along with Rick Warren's "The Family" in getting the death penalty for homosexuals passed Uganda. It is a well known fact and Chickenman has donated to Exodus International for over 10 years. I usually do at least a quick Google search before I donate MILLIONS to a charity.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Exodus International was instrumental along with Rick Warren's "The Family" in getting the death penalty for homosexuals passed Uganda. It is a well known fact and Chickenman has donated to Exodus International for over 10 years. I usually do at least a quick Google search before I donate MILLIONS to a charity.<< I did, and saw nothing out of the ordinary that was dated over a year ago in regards to this situation.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 So he gave lots of money to help exterminate gay people in Uganda last year rather than this year? Oh yeah, that makes it all okay.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 So he gave lots of money to help exterminate gay people in Uganda last year rather than this year? Oh yeah, that makes it all okay.<< He might not have known about it, seriously if he is anything like me, I donate to organizations that seem like they do good. I have no way of knowing what they do with my money, but if I later find out they sell arms to kids, I'll stop donating to them. I don't do a extensive background check because quite frankly I don't have time. I don't expect anyone else to do background checks on charities either.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 You're smarter than that. I seriously think you're reaching at anything to excuse this guy. He doesn't give 20 or 50 bucks. He gives millions. FOF is a designated hate group. They exist to be anti-gay. If you anything at all about them, you know that.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 You're smarter than that. I seriously think you're reaching at anything to excuse this guy. He doesn't give 20 or 50 bucks. He gives millions. << Not making excuses, but the pitchforks are already out, and the stake is on fire. People have already tried and convicted him, based on evidence they are uncovering now.
Originally Posted By dshyates I am not advocating restricting Cathy's right to donate to any group, organization , or cause he wants to. But as a gay person I think it is immoral for ME to give him one cent more in which he can use against me. Please explain to me where I am wrong.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I am not advocating restricting Cathy's right to donate to any group, organization , or cause he wants to. But as a gay person I think it is immoral for ME to give him one cent more in which he can use against me. Please explain to me where I am wrong.<< You are not wrong at all. My problem is with people who go beyond what you are doing, and are vandalizing restaurants or harassing employees. That goes beyond free speech.
Originally Posted By barboy ///I have no trouble with self-esteem/// I almost believed you until you followed it up with: /// Seeing those millions of people lined up for CFA was a stark reminder that, no matter how far we've come and how inevitable equality is in the long run, there are still millions of people who feel exactly that way about me, for no damn good reason./// Clearly you are too defensive and likely paranoid to really understand why so many would go out of their way to queue up for some chicken. I feel that those showing support for the chicken house don't care much about your(my or anyone's) sexuality. But go ahead and make it about you if you like.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer There's a big disconnect between the right's insistence that Cathy was exercising his freedom of speech and their refusal to see that those opposed to his actions are also exercising their freedom of speech. I have yet to see a single one of Cathy's defenders agree that the First Amendment doesn't immunize you against accepting responsibility for what you say.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 This article basically sums up my thoughts on this issue and why I feel this "protest" isn't necessary. It is better written than anything I could come up with and it shows where the real issue lies, and it isn't with Chick Fil A's stand on the issue. This line sums it up best "I don't give a damn what Chick-Fil-A or The Home Depot or Gap or any other corporation thinks about gays. I care what my leaders think about equality." <a href="http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-823910" target="_blank">http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-823910</a>
Originally Posted By dshyates But William, chick fil a is supporting an organization that supports the death penalty for homosexuals (Uganda). As a gay man, you have to understand our opposition to Exodus Int. If you don't understand why gay people don't want to give money to people who want to kill gays., then I have to assume they you agree that gays should be put to death. So William, do you support extermination of gays?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>"I don't give a damn what Chick-Fil-A or The Home Depot or Gap or any other corporation thinks about gays. I care what my leaders think about equality."<< That reflects a pretty stunning ignorance about the intertwining of lobbyists and Congress. If you care about what your leaders think, you should definitely care about what businesses think because most leaders think what business lobbyists tell them to think.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>There is no evidence that Chick Fil A knew that the money was spent on a homophobic agenda.<< Which is kind of like saying that there's no evidence that the customers of Chick-Fil-A knew they serve chicken. These aren't local food pantries, William. These are some of the largest, most well-known charities in the country. Their activities are heavily promoted in fundamentalist churches. In the case of Exodus International, "curing" gays is ALL THEY DO. In the case of Focus on the Family, they have several daily radio programs that run in every market in the country. The CFA charitable foundation thingy knew EXACTLY what they were donating to. And it bears repeating. Even if you cut them some slack and say that they were funding charity activities other than trampling on gay rights, Cathy shot that argument right down in his interviews.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It is better written than anything I could come up with and it shows where the real issue lies, and it isn't with Chick Fil A's stand on the issue.<< (1) I call BS. That piece was written by a conservative Republican. The horrendous grammar gives it away. and (2) You write WAY better than that. Also: >>We all want equality, we just don't yet know the right way to achieve it.<< I call BS on that too. You might be telling yourself that you want equality, but if you stood in that long line on Wednesday, I call BS. You want true equality? Stop "tolerating" those who oppose it.
