Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Okay -- saw "Tron: Legacy" today and came to this thread -- posted this without reading anyone else's posts, and will now begin to read. Here's my review.... I walked out of “Tron: Legacy” IMAX 3D and realized that I felt the same way as I did walking out of the theatre 20 some years ago after having watched Tron. Some great special effects, but a poorly executed story and a terrible script. The special effects in Tron: Legacy are terrific. The environments of /’the grid’ are well executed, the machines are seamless, the costumes have been given a cool upgrade -- yeah, everything looks great. But CGI effects have come a long way since 1982, and these are nowhere near the industry changing effects that were in the original “Tron” – Not by a long shot. And in this day and age, where even TV shows have special effects shots, it’s just not dazzling enough to sustain this movie. As I recall, much of the original machinery and gadgets are here from the original movie. With 20+ years of special effects wizardry some are improved – some not. In the original “Tron,” the light cycles are introduced, and I seem to recall this fantastic wide shot of the ‘playing area.’ We are also see that deadly trail that the cycles leave behind – which becomes a permanent wall. Ride into it – and you’re dead. Game Over. With Tron: Legacy, that same sequence was so convoluted and confusing, that I wasn’t even sure what I was supposed to be looking at. Some of the plot points were just weird. Kevin Flynn, as played by Jeff Bridges, just comes across as a mind-numbed jerk. He hasn’t seen his kid in 25 years, and what does he do? Hugs him for a second, has a three sentence conversation with the young man, and then prepares a dinner with suckling pig and green beans. What the heck is that all about? Where do get pork in the grid? Then after a quick three sentence exchange, Bridges declares ‘It’s time for bed.’ You’re kidding me. I could picture a montage sequence where Flynn and his son pull an ‘all-nighter’ and catch up on the 20 years of life they’ve lost. As it is in Tron: Legacy, there’s very little reason to care about this father and son relationship. The various ‘young’ Jeff Bridges characters – Clu, Tron and Abednego or whatever – are kind of well done – they have a bit of that creepy ‘Polar Express’ look and while the effort of re-creating a younger Jeff Bridges is appreciated, the rest of the fx are so crisp and clear, that it just stuck out and came across as a bit odd. And there are flaws from the first movie that infiltrate the second one. I remember in the original ‘Tron’ – Bruce Boxleitner’s computerized doppelganger is in ‘the grid’ and almost gets off-ed. The girl computer program Yori (Cindy Morgan – whatever happened to her) saves him, and they take a moment to hug. They hug? Computer programs love each other? Even in Tron: Legacy, when we reach ‘the grid’ and the computer program elements are humanized, they seem to run the gamut of emotions – except humor. Olivia Wilde’s character Quorra smiles, flirts, frowns, and even poses sexily on a chaise lounge, and yet – she doesn’t seem to find anything funny or ironic. And what is up with Michael Sheen’s fey cane carrying fop? He was funny, but seemed he had been cast in the wrong movie. I half expected him to say “Does this grid make you horny baby, does it?” Speaking of which who’s the other swishy guy with the clear plastic facemask – and what’s he doing in this movie? Sam Flynn (Garrett Hedlund) gives it all he has, but again, from an acting perspective, he isn’t given much in the way of a script. With lines like “Get down below, the bermstrums are coming!” -- where just a wave and a gesture would be enough. The guys who wrote the script both worked on ‘Lost’ which I suppose gave them some prestige. But it just didn’t work. Most of it is over-written. One of the biggest aspects in any movie is that you have to care about the characters on the screen. I didn’t care about any of them. Sam Flynn just seemed like a spoiled jerk. Bruce Boxleitner’s character in the real world looks tired and / or bored. And can anyone explain why the young Sam has a movie poster of ‘Tron’ in his 1989 bedroom? How is that possible? Didn’t Doc Brown warn us of the repurcussions of such a paradox. Overall, I give ‘Tron: Legacy’ a 2 out of 5. Sure, the effects are fine. But I didn’t for one minute believe that Jeff Bridges and the rest of the cast weren’t standing in front of a green screen. I don’t think David Warner could save this.
Originally Posted By dizkid Posted pratically same response in other Tron thread. Young Sam doesn't have a poster for Tron the movie he has one for the fiction version of the Tron videogame i.e. The one we see in the Arcade later, the one Kevin invented after the events of the first movie, the one they talk about the whole opening sequence, heck the whole movie. I suggest maybe a second viewing to get it all in and response that this movie is not perfect but if you take it for what is you can still enjoy it.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Posted pratically same response in other Tron thread.> It is...sorry.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo As I have written elsewhere, thanks for the review Jim. Thanks for the thorough review. I think there are some valid points. I do wonder if my boyhood adoration of the original has tempered my perspective or if the real world has made me want to get wrapped up in the ride of it all and enjoy mys...elf. Or perhaps reading the graphic novel of the story bridging the two films first added to my enjoyment. It is funny, I do agree with a number of your points (especially Sheen's character), but at the same time, I feel the film is worthy of at least 4 stars. And it is one of the few films I really want to see again. Star Wars has a poor script, plot holes and some dubious acting too, but it is still my fav film ever. I suppose I am ok if not everything is Schindler's List or the Godfather. But I enjoyed your perspective (and deep down I agree, but I guess I too can be a pixie duster at times ;-)
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I have a few quick questions that I've been wondering about... What does 'knocking on the sky and listening to the sound' mean? Is it a reference to something else? Is it a zen thing? As soon as they mentioned it, I figured it was something that the cool kids all knew about, and I just wasn't cool enough to get it. Is it a term used outside of Tron? What does it mean? Where did the books come from? They are very clearly old and worn, so I doubt they came from within the grid. I guess they must have come from the same place as the pig... And does anybody else thing tha the Castor/Zeus character might be an Iso? There seems to be something up with him, other than just being a weirdo. The way the other characters interact with him, especially since he knew Quorra 'a very long time ago', makes me think that there's something special going on there. It seems to be well known that Zeus is a big deal, and I don't really see how programs can get that much personality and fame under Clu's regime. It also seems strange that a program's purpose would be to run a nightclub, so there seems to be a backstory there. Hopefully, whatever that backstory is, it will make him less bizarre, but I'm not counting on it. >>I suppose I am ok if not everything is Schindler's List..<< Interesting, because my friend that I went to see it with didn't pick up on the religious undertones of the film at all, but she did get stuck on the obvious parallels between Clu and Hitler. As we were leaving, she commented that she liked it, but wasn't expecting it to be Schindler's List. I gave her a blank look, since, yes, those themes are there, but it's hardly anywhere near as intense, or even the main conflict of the film. To each, their own.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ Actually the conversation today about how computers don't get humor, but Zeus seemed to get it as well as Quorra, gave me the feeling that Zeus might be an Iso as well. It would explain his working for the rebellion in the beginning before he changed his colors later on.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> 'knocking on the sky and listening to the sound' mean?<<< It is a Zen thing. My interpretation is the sky is the limit, you can knock on the sky, but you would hear nothing, as the sky is limitless and without boundaries. I was thinking about the pig, and the books. Is it possible that Flynn could have created them? Kind of like the way in star Trek Next Generation the computer on ship creates synthetic food and entertainment? As for Zuse, I am thinking he might be an ISO, then again, he could be a programme designed for entertainment. Facebook meets Myspace meets porn sites meets, well frankly, other entertainments found in cyberspace. And yes, CLU's programming and mission is very similar to the doctrines of the 3rd Reich and Arian culture. Just like have you ever noticed in Star Wars, all the high ranking Empire officers are human, whereas the Rebel Alliance has a number of high ranking aliens. There is a large similarities. Though not just nazi Germany, but also the tribe wars of Africa (look at modern day Zimabwe) or the purges of Kurds in Iraq during Saddam's rule.
Originally Posted By dizkid >>I gave her a blank look, since, yes, those themes are there, but it's hardly anywhere near as intense, or even the main conflict of the film. To each, their own.<< I think your friend may have been refering less to the themes of schindlers list and more to it being an exceptionally good movie. As In... Bob: (Movie) was good. Steve: Yeah but it was no schindlers list
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I certainly didn't walk into 'Tron: Legacy' expecting the next 'Schindler's List' -- far from it. But I did expect a good film visually (which I got) with a decent script and believable characters and situations. (which I did not).
Originally Posted By dizkid >>believable characters and situations<< I can understand believable characters. But dude, it's a movie about a guy who goes into a computer. How many believable situations were you expecting?
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ There still has to be enough verisimilitude for the audience to suspend disbelief. As funny as it sounds, I couldn't get into the movie in the real world because it felt forced and contrived. The reality was created for me until the fantasy world of the grid, which may highlight the emphasis the script writers and the director placed on the fantastical and not the everyday. Another film about computers from this same season, The Social Network, had me believing in its world and people from the opening moment, and I never once questioned the filmmakers grasp on technology and its implication... so its not so much about the science or science fiction, but on how its portrayed by the people making the movie. - Anatole
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo In my mind, TRON Legacy is what the world kind of needs right now. The world is not such a nice environment to be in right now. Everyone seems to have different problems (hell Christmas was the worst ever this year, even worse than last - moods, people etc.). Everything in the movies or TV is reality TV, or soap type stuff, and a little doom and gloom. For me, Tron was a relief, a chance to see something that was a fun ride, to hide away from the real world for a little while. And to me, it really delivered on this front. Any comparisons drawn between Social Networking and TRON shouldn't even be there. I was going to TRON looking for a new Wizard of Oz, Clash of the Titans, Star Wars type experience, and for me it delivered. And frankly I need more things like this, escapes from reality. Disney used to offer it in their parks, but for some reason the toons and synergy took that respite away from me. But this one still delivered.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ They are different types of movies, but both still need to get the audience involved in their story, escapist or not. My point was the real world of Tron felt contrived and the fantasy world felt real... if anything it should have been easier for the filmmaker to involve me from the real world before transporting me to the fantasy one. I brought up The Social Network as an example of a recent film also about computers that I felt was more involving in dealing with the same environment than Tron was. - Anatole
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ Oh yeah, another recent film that dealt with a real world/fantasy world double was Where the Wild Things Are. If anything I thought the real world scenes were more involving than the fantasy ones, and they did the job of establishing why the hero would want to go into the fantasy world, and they brought the audience in with scenes that anyone could identify with: the relationship with the mother, the relationship with his sister. Especially the snowball fight and igloo I felt really made it something the audience could relate to. In Tron we have a heist/hack crime where the parachute deploys only feet from hitting the ground and the hero isn't killed, an escape plan that involves a motorcycle parked on the street, a father revealing he has a secret he will tell his son but oops, I have to go now and just coincidentally the father vanishes after that. Basically in place of giving us real events and emotions to connect to the characters with, we get a bunch of cliched action movie/melodrama tropes instead. - Anatole
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Oh yeah, another recent film that dealt with a real world/fantasy world double was Where the Wild Things Are. If anything I thought the real world scenes were more involving than the fantasy ones, and they did the job of establishing why the hero would want to go into the fantasy world, and they brought the audience in with scenes that anyone could identify with: the relationship with the mother, the relationship with his sister. Especially the snowball fight and igloo I felt really made it something the audience could relate to.>> Rotten Tomatoes: 73% <In Tron we have a heist/hack crime where the parachute deploys only feet from hitting the ground and the hero isn't killed, an escape plan that involves a motorcycle parked on the street, a father revealing he has a secret he will tell his son but oops, I have to go now and just coincidentally the father vanishes after that.>> Rotten Tomatoes: 48% Coincidence? I don't think so. Anatole summed it up beautifully. Fantasy is tricky for filmmakers. Really good S/F and fantasy is difficult to pull off. Guillermo del Toro is one of our modern day masters at this stuff. Pan's Labyrinth is an amazing fantasy world with a complex story, well integrated against the backdrop of the real world of WWII. Rotten Tomatoes averaged 95% for a very good reason. Escapist movies like TRON are a guilty pleasure, and some films in this genre are certainly better than others. But like Anatole, I want my films to make some logical sense so I'm thoroughly transported into them. If there are too many gaps in the logical flow of developments, I'll never fully immerse myself in the fantasy.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I'm surprised more LP members haven't seen TRON: Legacy, and weighed in on it. I thought everyone here was dying to see it. ???
Originally Posted By dvcdadlegacy Ok well I came back just to see what was being said here about the movie. I saw it today. I forgot my password so I apologize for not posting as my original DVC_dad. Anyway, here is what I thought. Dave, you've seen this already. I was most impressed with the originality. I was worried that they wouldn't be able to keep the concept far enough away from The Matrix series, but they did. I would have liked to have seen more of the TRON program, (his history, his current purpose, his FACE) and a bit more drama of him dealing with the inner struggle of fighting for Clu vs. fighting for The Users. I would have loved to have seen his face, but then he would have looked exactly like Alan, and that would have confused a lot of people. It was hard enough making Jeff Bridges look 30 years younger. (He is what 61'ish?) Not sure they could have done that with Bruce Boxleitner, but I suppose in the digital world anything is possible. Also, I love the fact that the TRON program never lost his ability to think autonomously. That in the end, is what saved the world isn't it? So really, in spite of never seeing his (it's) face, and not knowing his past if you never saw the original, the movie was properly named after all. Bottom line, marketing for this one was terrible. The script wasn't clear enough for those who were new to TRON to "get it." In fact, many who had seen the original, probably had seen it so long ago (the DVD has long since been out of print) that even some of the old loyal cult fans could get confused. I wonder if Disney had re-released the Original a couple months ago, if that maybe would have helped with newcomers. All in all for me, I personally LOVED it.
Originally Posted By dvcdadlegacy Sadly, there will never be a 3rd. But I am just happy that I got to see a 2nd. Maybe if I can hang on 28 more years...?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Glad to see your thoughts DVC Dad, just picked up your e-mail a few moments ago. I too am sorry this did not make the grade with so many, I am starting to feel like I am definately not a main stream person anymore. But yes, I will be definately buying this as soon as it comes out. I do wonder though, with how all the films are performing (see the comments in the other threads about Narnia, Lilliput, Little Fockers etc.), if this is now an economy thing? The cost of my ticket to see it in 3D plus buying a pair of glasses, was almost exactly the same price as buying a new DVD off the internet or buying it in the grocery store. If taking a family, it means economically, you could go and watch one film or buy 4 DVDs? I know that TRON Legacy was the first non animated film I have seen full price on the big screen since the last Indiana Jones, and the film before that was Star Wars Eps 3. Then again Harry Potter seems to have done well.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 Films do well in a bad economy. People can't afford to travel, and they want to escape from their problems, so they go to the movies. The films are just really weak this year, and there has been extremely bad weather in Europe and the USA, so people stay home and after a week or two, they can get the films for free online from pirates, so they lose the incentive to go see it in the theater.
