Originally Posted By jonvn Don't say what I do and do not understand. Or choose not to understand. And don't paper over logical fallacy with "matter of faith." It's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of not making sense, internally or externally. For example: "He could have (if he had chosen to) resolved the issues and obtained a temple recommend " He was banned from the place. That is not his doing, it is the doing of the people banning him. That is cult like. "As for secret – there are no doctrines taught in the temple that can not be found in the scriptures of the LDS church. However, the temple endeavors to present those doctrines in an eternal perspective and as a result of that eternal perspective individuals can make covenants with God." In other words, it's not secret, but we do things differently there and we won't tell you. That makes it a secret. That makes it cult like behavior. Look, I don't care if you want to believe in a sacred chicken if that's your thing. Don't try and tell me I'm some inferior being who does not understand because your loopy concepts and irrational thought processes. I understand them fully. They are simply rejected.
Originally Posted By utahjosh << <"He could have (if he had chosen to) resolved the issues and obtained a temple recommend "> He was banned from the place. That is not his doing, it is the doing of the people banning him. That is cult like.>> You are totally wrong. It was ALL his doing I don't call you inferior, just that you don't believe in things you can't see. You don't have Faith as it pertains to this discussion. You're probably a great guy.
Originally Posted By jonvn "You are totally wrong. It was ALL his doing" I'm sorry, was he banned from entering or not? Yes or no? "I don't call you inferior, just that you don't believe in things you can't see." You keep saying I "don't understand." I understand quite well.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "I just don't appreciate being lectured by someone who doesn't seem to think very clearly." I know what you're saying. But, like I said before, there is no logic to religion. Nobody is ever told to read the bible and reason it out to come to the conclusion that it is true. They are told that through feelings and faith, they will understand and know. Faith is a powerful thing, I understand that. It can make people do things that they would never have the courage to do. On the flip side, it can create a feeling in the "believers" that they are superior to others. It is not intentional, but it does happen. It's like rich people and poor people. Rich people feel like they are better than poor people because they can buy more stuff. Poor people don't necessarily feel inferior, but they are seen as such in the eyes of the rich. "Believers" feel spiritually rich because they have faith that they will live in heaven someday. They feel that they are superior to the "non-believers" because the "non-believers" will probably not go to heaven. I used to feel the same way and probably still would if I believed in that stuff. How would you feel if you believed that your father was going to give you a better reward than your brothers and sisters because he liked you better?
Originally Posted By jonvn "Faith is a powerful thing, I understand that." Faith is simply another name for "wishful thinking."
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I have an idea. How about just saying each side of this debate has their own reality and leave it at that? What might be "wishful thinking" to one person is another's person's faith. Leave it at that and move on.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Hey SPP, good to see you back. Hope you enjoyed your vacation and you're not hurtin' too much.
Originally Posted By jonvn "What might be "wishful thinking" to one person is another's person's faith. " Their faith is little more than hoping it's right. I don't see how it can be anything other than wishful thinking. And prayer little more than wishing.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Their faith is little more than hoping it's right. I don't see how it can be anything other than wishful thinking." To you maybe, but not to them. It's as real to them as it is unreal to you, and no amount of your continuing to say it's anything else will change that.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Hey SPP, good to see you back. Hope you enjoyed your vacation and you're not hurtin' too much. " Thanks. I've been back since Sunday and have lurked here. I just didn't feel like joining in some of the spewage that has taken place here the last few days.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder And yeah, the time in Arizona was great. No leg injuries, but my right pinkie has been swollen purple since the 21st from a thrown ball and my right thumb area swelled up about two sizes from the ball hitting the bat handle too much. I played with it anyway. It was all great. I wouldn't have had it any other way.
Originally Posted By jonvn "It's as real to them as it is unreal to you" I am fully sure they think their wishful thinking is real.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I am fully sure they think their wishful thinking is real." This statement proves you're still trying to deny them. What is it to you, some altruistic bent?
Originally Posted By jonvn " What is it to you, some altruistic bent? " I will reflect that right back at you. What is it to you what I feel or how I express my feelings on the matter? Some altruistic bent?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Your feeling I couldn't care less about. Why you continue to try and deny people who believe is merely entertainment.
Originally Posted By jonvn I don't deny anyone anything. I simply state the facts of the matter as I see them. I have asked people to provide me reason upon which I should change my view, and was not given any. So I have not. You're not going to win, Darth.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder At this juncture, I don't think anyone cares to change your view.
Originally Posted By jonvn Why would they want to in the first place? To convert me to their religion? I think I'll let the Christians figure out which one of them is the one true religion first by bashing each other senselessly over empty minutae. Call me when they're done. I'll look over the winner to see what it has to say, and then cross reference what the Jews say, which is diametrically opposed to all of them in the first place.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Why would they want to in the first place? To convert me to their religion?" Beats me. But it wouldn't hurt you to let them believe what they want without badgering them, would it?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Why would they want to in the first place? To convert me to their religion?" Beats me. But it wouldn't hurt you to let them believe what they want without badgering them, would it?
