Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, you see, we don't get to abuse prisoners and bully people via the legal system...
Originally Posted By Mr X **Oh, and one last thing, if you folks want to baptize me once I'm dead without my permission, I see no problem in finding out about your temple rights and telling people without your permission.** I thought (guessed?) they only baptized dead mormons.
Originally Posted By jonvn No, they baptize everyone. This is why they like to do geneologies, so they can find their ancestors, and baptize them as mormons. If you are already a mormon, then there is no need to baptize you once you are dead, because you would already have been baptized as one.
Originally Posted By Mr X **This is why they like to do geneologies, so they can find their ancestors, and baptize them as mormons.** That sounds rather creepy.
Originally Posted By jonvn The idea is that you want your entire family to be able to be together in the afterlife. If you were not able to be baptized as a mormon while alive, you can accept the baptism after death and be one big happy family.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, I understand the concept and all. But what if your relative was an extremely devout {insert religion here}? To me, that would be horribly disrespectful.
Originally Posted By jonvn Well, yes. I think so. But the Mormons say they can choose to not accept the baptism in the afterlife if they don't want it. Of course they feel these people would absolutely want it, because once they were in the afterlife, they'd understand how important it is to have. I think it is dishonoring someone's memory and beliefs, myself. It is forcing your will upon someone else. Just like the do not post the secrets idea here. It is a means of controlling others.
Originally Posted By jonvn What it comes down to, X, is that if your kid decides to become a mormon, after you die, you will likely be baptized into the mormon church. Isn't that nice?
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I'm not sure how common baptizing Holocaust victims really is/was but it's so wrong on so many levels.
Originally Posted By Mr X Wouldn't have to be your kid though. Assuming your bloodline continues, it's almost a statistical certainty it would happen to everyone if the mormon church survives as long as some others have.
Originally Posted By jonvn I don't know how long it can last. They have to AGGRESSIVELY proselytize in order to keep their roles up. You may have noticed a large number of ex mormons here. Many leave the church. This is very true of Jehovah's witnesses, as well. They need to keep recruiting because it has the single largest fall away rate of any large religion. This is not generally true of other groups. We have a few catholics here. If they fall away, they don't call themselvs ex-catholic, generally. they say they are lapsed. They still identify with the religion, even if they don't follow it as much. It's just a quirky group that has as its main adherents people in this country, for whom it chiefly has relevance. It's a world wide church, but really, outside of this country, it's pretty much not a real major entity. Certainly not like Catholicism is.
Originally Posted By SuperDry And this thread is but a small sample of what will happen in the general public discourse if Romney gets the nomination.
Originally Posted By jonvn Well, it will be a bit harder for the entire church to run away when someone spills the beans on their secret rituals.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "I'm not sure how common baptizing Holocaust victims really is/was but it's so wrong on so many levels." Actually, the Mormon church has gotten into trouble a couple of times for performing baptisms for Holocaust victims. The first time they were caught, they agreed to stop performing them. And then, a couple of years ago, they were caught doing them again. They have agreed to refrain from doing these baptisms for the Holocaust victims unless there is a member of the Mormon church who is a descendant of one of the victims and is requesting it be done. Let's see how long it takes for the Mormons to get in trouble again.
Originally Posted By jdub >>... if you folks want to baptize me once I'm dead without my permission, I see no problem in finding out about your temple rights and telling people without your permission.<< THANK you. I alluded to that dubious practice early on in this thread, but was completely ignored on that count.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin Here are a couple of links: <a href="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West/12/10/baptizing.the.dead.ap/" target="_blank">http://archives.cnn.com/2002/U S/West/12/10/baptizing.the.dead.ap/</a> <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/26/ap/national/mainD8HRN99O6.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories /2006/05/26/ap/national/mainD8HRN99O6.shtml</a> You may have to copy and paste the links into your web browser.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<No, they baptize everyone. This is why they like to do geneologies, so they can find their ancestors, and baptize them as mormons. >> This practice got more than a few Jews especially hot under the collar.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<This is not generally true of other groups. We have a few catholics here. If they fall away, they don't call themselvs ex-catholic, generally. they say they are lapsed. They still identify with the religion, even if they don't follow it as much.>> It depends. A "lapsed Catholic" could be someone who still identifies himself with the Church, but for one reason or another is not active in the Church. Then there are those who formally leave the Church, either through a formal renunciation, or by simply joining another religious organization. There are plenty of Catholics who become Protestants. A common reason is the desire to remarry after a divorce. Some do it out of theologicl conviction. There are also plenty of Protestants who chose to become Catholic (Tony Blair comes to mind). Adult candidates are usually received into the Church on Easter, after a year long preparation called Rite of Christian Initiation. Those who were previously baptized into Christian denominations that accept the Trinity are not rebaptized. Those already baptized are referred to as "candidates" and the unbaptized as "catechumens". We usually receive 50-100 adults into the Church every year at our parish at Easter.
