Originally Posted By Mr X And so they should be. Quite frankly there's a lot more "eternal truth" in that show than I've ever found in religion. Not to mention a lot less boring!
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Isn't it funny how people cling to things they think are truth and then truth smacks them upside the head with shows like South Park. Mormonism provides a great example of this with their translation of "Egyptian scriptures" and the discovery of the Rosetta stone soon thereafter. Things like this make me believe in god and that he is someone I'd like to hang out with.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf The Book of Mormon was translated from gold tablets written in "Reformed Egyptian" (which have conveniently gone back to heaven) Then Joseph Smith bought an Egytian mummy which had a papyrus scroll inside. He "translated" it and found that he had original scriptures written by Abraham and Moses. The papyrus is real and has been identified by modern egyptologists as the Book of the Dead - which makes sense that it was in with a mummy. But no one could translate egyptian in Joseph Smith's day so they accepted his interpretation.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf When you want to believe in something you can. Mormonism promises a lot of good things - not the least of which is the path to become a god one day yourself (see utahjosh's thread). Also, the families can be together forever thing. I think people are willing to turn a blind eye to logical stuff when they want to believe in certain things badly enough.
Originally Posted By FaMulan <We all agreed that the worst "punishment" in the religious world was the fact that those poor Jews could never enjoy a CHEESEBURGER! > Yeah, and I guess bacon cheeseburgers were totally out of the question.<< Depends on how observant the Jew is, and how closely he/she adheres to the laws of Kashrut. My husband loves bacon cheeseburgers. But, he is a very relaxed about practicing his religion.
Originally Posted By ecdc Pete (Mr. Draggin) summed it up very well. It's an odd thing when faith, hope, or even longing that something is true, isn't good enough. Anything less than certainty is viewed at best with pity, at worst with scorn.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's not good enough for me, anyway. I don't see why people should delude themselves. I think this has cause a lot of suffering in this world, because people will think it will be better in the next. Look at all the preocupation religious people have with the next life. Meanwhile the one they are in now? The one where we know people are suffering on a daily basis? Well, that all kind of gets ignored a bit. If people would put as much significance in the world we do know about, the world that exists, as opposed to some vague afterlife, then maybe it would be a better place for everyone to live in.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Well, when you're stuck in a crappy life now, it's comforting to think of eternal rewards.
Originally Posted By Elderp "Which, by the way, is the same question I have gotten from my father several times." Your father might be the reason your name hasn't been removed. If I were you I would go have a "heart to heart" with your dad and say "no dad, really you need to let the Bishop remove my name." As for other people I don't know why it is so difficult to leave. I have seen people have trouble with Bishops not doing the footwork. In every case I have seen, after writing to church headquarters they got dropped really quick. I am not saying you haven't tried, but I am doubtful you have really written SLC (Salt Lake City). I would, if you are really admanent about this, send a certified letter. My experience has been in this situation has been in this as follows: I go to a members house to go HT (Home Teaching), they say they either are not a member (even though we have records of them being a member)or do not want to be a member, so I tell them to write a letter ( I even offer to deliver it to the Bishop for them). At this point many will refuse to write a letter, so I tell them another HT is going to come there way sooner or later. OR some people write the letter and I deliver it to the Bishop and then they RESCIND THE LETTER!!! Thus starting the cycle all over again!!! My experience on this has been few people really want to leave the church. For some reason, unbeknown to me, some people are really wishy washy (I wonder if it is a hedging their bets kind of thing). I am not saying your experiences isn't valid. I am saying however having gone through the process from a church standpoint that it isn't that big of a deal (paperwork wise, doctorinally its a BIG deal). From a doctorinal (LDS Church) standpoint, you are not living the promises you made at baptism, you are not going to church, you are not contributing to the church in any manner, home teachers don't usually realish the opportunity to go to a hostile members house (if you don't want us there, we less want to be there), and it isn't like there are not 100s of other houses out there that do need our time and attention. Why would we want to keep you as a hostage member?! The idea is ridiculous to me. Make up your mind. Live the gospel, or write the letter and go. Don't sit and post a message saying "I am a hostage member" when you live in a free country where you are free to do anything practically you want. There is no state controlled religion in this country. Nobody can force anyone to believe anything anyhow, its all up to you. Anyhow, that was part rant and I appologize for that. I get frustrated though, because as someone who is in charge of coordinating all those Home Teachers it gets really annoying to have to send people out to members homes who are not very willing. Don't get me wrong. We LOVE going to people's homes where they need us, and we have a lot of those people. We are of the belief however that we are to visit every member, even the wishy washy ones, because despite my rant they need help too. My experience is that we don't usually have time to visit those people much. We are supposed to visit them every month but that doesn't happen much due to time. So anyhow, if you don't want a HT visit, you don't have to have one, but as long as your a member your going to get one.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Oh gosh, I don't know how that happened! it was supposed to go in the Beverly thread! LOL Sorry jonvn!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>If people would put as much significance in the world we do know about, the world that exists, as opposed to some vague afterlife, then maybe it would be a better place for everyone to live in.<< I agree with this. And actually, that probably isn't all that far off from many religion's view of things. Personally, I try to do right and help where I can, but I don't do it in hopes of a big jackpot in the afterlife.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "Why would we want to keep you as a hostage member?! The idea is ridiculous to me." Elderp, I think the point of Pete's message (as well as my own and Churro's) is that we are being retained on the rolls so that members (such as one on this board) can throw out 13 million member statistic. And as a former home teacher myself, I can sympathize with you not wanting to visit people like us and we know it's not your fault we are still on the church's rolls. I personally have a problem with my name be used as evidence that the church is growing and strong when I know the number is inflated because they won't erase my name. It's a marketing ploy and I don't want to help the cause anymore.
Originally Posted By Elderp "Elderp, I think the point of Pete's message (as well as my own and Churro's) is that we are being retained on the rolls so that members (such as one on this board) can throw out 13 million member statistic." The church doesn't need the statistics. Write the letter (or don't but you know a HT will be visiting).
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "The church doesn't need the statistics." Then stop using them. I've written many letters.
