Originally Posted By plpeters70 "So anyhow, if you don't want a HT visit, you don't have to have one, but as long as your a member your going to get one." Not to be rude, but this whole Home Teaching thing sounds very creepy to me. I understand why missionaries would want to go from house to house trying to get converts, but what is the point of going to peoples homes when they are already a member of your church. So, why is this done?
Originally Posted By Elderp Home Teaching is done to help foster community within the church. We believe that we are all brothers and sisters. As brothers and sisters we believe we should go out and check up and make sure everyone's needs are met. Basically, the home teacher goes to the home says hello, be friendly, and talk. Share a gospel message. This can range to something the home teacher read in the Ensign (the church magazine) and though the family would like or maybe a significant verse the home teacher thought the family might find relevant. The home teacher will ask if there is anything the member needs from the Church. Sometimes there are legitament reasons people can't make it to church. Some people are elderly and want the sacrament but are bed bound, maybe the family's car broke down and they need a ride, etc. the reasons are many. I spoke to one of my families recently and the wife just had a major surgery. So I went to the hospital while she was there and said hello. Then when she was ready to come home I told the Relief Society President (the Women's leader) and she inturn arranged meals to be sent to her home. The Young Women's Leader was informed and now babysitters are going over to the home and watching her kids so the husband can get out to work more (he runs a local auto mechanic). This is just a recent scenario. When my wife had our baby, the Elder's Quorem (one of the men's associations) came to my house while I was at the hospital and shoveled the snow off my driveway. That was done because my home teacher had contacted me and had asked me what I needed. Anyhow, it isn't necessarily about service. Sometimes I go to my assigned families, bring a plate of cookies, and we just sit and talk. To both me and the families I visit that is just fun. In my congregation there are 200 families, I know most of them, but there just isn't any way I am going to logistically have a close relationship with all of them. Less is the Bishop (the leader of the congregation) going to know what every member needs at all times. This is an additional way for the members of the church to socialize and still be connected to the Church at large. I don't know if that sounds creepy to you, but I know people see things in different lights, so please take it as you will.
Originally Posted By jonvn well, to be fair, I don't think someone who is catholic can phone up the vatican and say "I want to opt out." Just how it is.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Elderp, thanks for the description. And while it still sounds creepy to me, I can see how many would love that type of fellowship with members of their community. It just sounds a little to controlling for my taste.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I haven't posted 1 statistic. In fact this is from the media page on the church website: "...the Church cautions against overemphasis on growth statistics. The Church makes no statistical comparisons with other churches and makes no claim to be the fastest-growing Christian denomination despite frequent news media comments to that effect. Such comparisons rarely take account of a multiplicity of complex factors, including activity rates and death rates, the methodology used in registering or counting members and what factors constitute membership. Growth rates also vary significantly across the world. Additionally, many other factors contribute to the strength of the Church, most especially the devotion and commitment of its member"
Originally Posted By Mr X **well, to be fair, I don't think someone who is catholic can phone up the vatican and say "I want to opt out." Just how it is.** I bet you could get yourself excommunicated pretty quick though.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Home Teaching is done to help foster community within the church.** I would imagine it could also be used as a means to keep tabs on your members and make sure they aren't breaking any rules. After all, it would be easy enough to set up meetings in a regular church office or something. In fact, that would make much more sense if you want to reach "willing participants". But that would make it difficult to notice the bottle of wine on the counter, the lack of group literature in the home, or the living space that doesn't particularly contain what is expected of a "good member". And I'm sure people know that, which is also part of the process (fear of shunning). I'm sorry, but that too contributes to the feeling that the whole thing is cult-like. And it's telling that some have complained here about being bothered even though they aren't even with the group anymore! Yikes.
Originally Posted By Mr X **we believe we should go out and check up** That sounds more like it, frankly!
Originally Posted By Mr X **Then when she was ready to come home I told the Relief Society President (the Women's leader) and she inturn arranged meals to be sent to her home. The Young Women's Leader was informed and now babysitters are going over to the home and watching her kids so the husband can get out to work more (he runs a local auto mechanic).** **When my wife had our baby, the Elder's Quorem (one of the men's associations) came to my house while I was at the hospital and shoveled the snow off my driveway.** This sort of thing is very cool though, I think. My uncle is a member of a small baptist church and they are very similar. They church really rallies around families when they go through hard times.
Originally Posted By Elderp "It just sounds a little to controlling for my taste." Thats cool, I am not saying you have to be LDS. I am saying saying you should be, but not that you have to be. "And it's telling that some have complained here about being bothered even though they aren't even with the group anymore! Yikes." Yeah, but these are the same peope saying they no longer wish to be members. Which I find really hard to believe, because I know it isn't really that hard to leave the church if you want to. You said yourself that if these people really wanted to leave the church and couldn't that they should sue the church. Think about it, why would one of the largest churches in the US want to keep members to the point where they would be hostile. Religious philsophy aside that is just a PR nightmare, because as we see in this case, we see that when people are not happy they will start ranting against the thing they are not happy about. The Church, which is a missionary church, doesn't need that kind of negative PR. The Church wants people who don't want to live the standards out just as much as they want to leave. This is not to say we drop members because they don't meet standards, no one is perfect. Truth be told there have been times I have had to change my ways and repent. Church is there to help people, not to hurt them. The problem with forums like this is that people can say whatever they want but there is no way to verify their claims (good or bad).
Originally Posted By Mr X **You said yourself that if these people really wanted to leave the church and couldn't that they should sue the church. Think about it, why would one of the largest churches in the US want to keep members to the point where they would be hostile. Religious philsophy aside that is just a PR nightmare** The church would probably assume (rightly so) that the vast majority of people wouldn't sue, but rather would grudgingly go along with the unwanted visits with a shrug. That's the way most people are by nature.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I don't think home teaching is creepy nor do I find it creepy that anyone would visit my home but geez, a person should have to hire an attorney just to make it stop? How is that reasonable? No one should have to spend the time or money to do this. Asking once, maybe twice should be enough.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "Which I find really hard to believe, because I know it isn't really that hard to leave the church if you want to." I understand that you have your own opinion on this matter and do not believe that it is difficult to have one's name removed from the records of the church. Unfortunately, not all church leaders share your opinion. Once you have been in my situation, feel free to comment on the difficulty or ease of having this done. Until then, you just don't understand how difficult the church makes it for people who want to "leave the fold." And I'm not the only one in this situation. There are many others whom I have met personally or spoken to on discussion boards like this one who have had similar experiences. I also know people who are wishy-washy about leaving the church (which I don't really understand). They don't live by any of the teachings, nor do they ever attend any church meetings, but they insist they are Mormon and profess to believe in Joseph Smith and the BoM. I find these people very odd and I just don't understand them.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "Your father might be the reason your name hasn't been removed. If I were you I would go have a "heart to heart" with your dad and say "no dad, really you need to let the Bishop remove my name."" My father is the one who had my church records transferred to where I live now, but he has no control over whether my name is removed from the records of the church or not. And if he did have that kind of power, that is another problem with the church.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I bet you could get yourself excommunicated pretty quick though>> As I have explained before, being excommunicated doesn't mean that one has been "kicked out" of the Church. All it means is that one is not a "communicant", i.e. you cannot receive communion. Also, being excommunicated is a jurisdictional thing. One is typically excommunicated by one's local Bishop. What that means is that you can still receive communion in another jurisdictions. An example of this was a San Diego state legislator named Lucy Killea. Because of her pro-abortion stance she was excommunicated by then Bishop Leo Maher. Mrs. Killea was able to circumvent Maher's excommunication by attending Mass in Orange County.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Personally, I try to do right and help where I can, but I don't do it in hopes of a big jackpot in the afterlife. <<< Likes toony even more now ;-) Seems we're cut from the same cloth.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>My uncle is a member of a small baptist church and they are very similar. They church really rallies around families when they go through hard times.<<<< That is one of the great things about organised religion. It can give a great level of community spirit. I used to help with the local Church Lunch club for the elderly and the children and young person's group. Even though I wasn't a practicing member of the church, I was certainly welcome for my input to community life. I loved it when I was a kid doing this stuff.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "The problem with forums like this is that people can say whatever they want but there is no way to verify their claims (good or bad)." Um, why would we lie about that? And you guys keep implying that we shouldn't be expressing our opinions. Do you wonder why most so many people think you're a cult? And I posted a while back that we don't blame you or any other home teachers, we blame the church itself. I did a write a new letter last night though, and wrote that some guy named Elderp on the internet promised me that my name would be removed once and for all so I expect it will be done now. Hope that does the trick.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "I did a write a new letter last night though, and wrote that some guy named Elderp on the internet promised me that my name would be removed once and for all so I expect it will be done now. Hope that does the trick." I hadn't thought about that one. I'll do the same thing tonight. If that doesn't work, nothing will.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<I left due to an overwhelming sense of not belonging. I'd sit in the pews and sadly realize that these are no longer my people.>> Wow! That eerie. That sounds exactly the way I left the church myself. For a long time I doubted little things here and there. Then it dawned on me…there really isn’t any room for doctrinal differentiation in the church. Doctrinally, everyone’s a clone of person sitting next to them. If they aren’t there is something wrong with them. And that’s when I stopped going. There was either something wrong with them, or something wrong with me. Either way, they weren’t my people anymore. I tend to think you relationship with your supreme being should be fluid, not rigid.
