Originally Posted By jdub <<maybe the Mormon Church isn't right for you.>> Please remember that for after I die!
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf No need. If you don't want to be the lone inhabitant on a rock floating in space, I doubt a benevolent god would force it upon you. And if god isn't benevolent, then we're all screwed anyway. I just wanna be god's pet cat - isn't there a religion that offers that?
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I think Mormon missions are more about converting oneself to the faith than converting others. Wouldn't you agree with that somewhat josh?> I would say that the personal growth of the Missionaries has always been and will always be a result of serving a mission. Spending two years of your life studying the gospel and testifying of it will certainly strengthen your faith. However, in recent years, the Church leadership has raised expectations of prospective missionaries. They must be prepared physically, mentally, and socially, and already converted. They have "raised the bar" for prospective missionaries.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "They have "raised the bar" for prospective missionaries." Good thing I went when I did - I doubt I would make the cut anymore. The MTC just about did me in as it was.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I do not think it's cool, mooning women.>> I have no problem with women mooning me. ;-)
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Somebody needs to answer this because I never know the difference between Mormon faith and Jehovah Witness.I once told the faith person knocking at my door that I was a non-believer. Next thing I knew an entire group of people was at the end of my sidewalk praying for me.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Somebody needs to answer this because I never know the difference between Mormon faith and Jehovah Witness.> The LDS Church (The Mormons) and the Jehovas Witnesses are different churches. I don't know a whole lot about the JWs, so I can't really answer it. I know we are both Christian churches, but that's about it. <I once told the faith person knocking at my door that I was a non-believer. Next thing I knew an entire group of people was at the end of my sidewalk praying for me.> Mormons and JWs both often have missionaries going door-to-door, so I understand the confusion. However, I've never known a group of LDS missionaries praying on the sidewalk for someone. We only go two-by-two.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Good thing I went when I did - I doubt I would make the cut anymore. The MTC just about did me in as it was.<< I think this is another sign of the "corporatizing" of the Mormon faith. Christ was about leaving the 99 and going after the 1. Mormonism doesn't come close to resembling anything like that. I think the new "raising the bar" standards do make it so a lot of people who went on missions now could not go. And those people were essentially converted by their missions, and now they're great, contributing members of the organization. But due to rising mission costs, efficiency, etc., etc., the church decided to make changes to the program. Again, it's run more like the Corporation of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints than a church. It's a real shame. Obviously, this is all just my opinion and Josh and other active members will disagree.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I think this is another sign of the "corporatizing" of the Mormon faith. Christ was about leaving the 99 and going after the 1. Mormonism doesn't come close to resembling anything like that.> I don't follow your logic here. We have hundreds of thousands of missionaries "leaving the 99" to invite others to join the fold. Within the church, we have members of the church visit every member of the church each month to misiter one-on-one. (well, we try our best. It's the Home Teaching program, in which two priesthood brethren are assigned member families in their area to serve, teach, and just be there for - so nobody is neglected.) What more can be done to "leave the 99?"
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Somebody needs to answer this because I never know the difference between Mormon faith and Jehovah Witness.>> I'm sure that was the JW's. Here are a couple of ways to know who's who: 1) The Mormons wear dark suits with a white shirt and a dark tie. The JW's do not. 2) If you tell the Mormons that you are Catholic (or whatever) and have no desire to switch faiths they will leave you alone. The JW's will tell you that your faith is crap and you are going to hell unless you become a JH. I hope I haven't offended any JW's that may be here, but your recruitment methods are rather crude compared to the Mormons.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yes, I have encountered members from both religions and the JW's I've met, at least, are masters of the "hard sell"... And they are very good at what they do, too...very difficult to shoo them away once they get their foot in the door in my experience. The Mormon folks I've met are much more about positive vibes vs. a hard sales tactic. But again, that's just been my own experience.
Originally Posted By utahjosh The mormon way of sharing our message: It's up to each individual, really, to follow the Spirit in what to do. But the way I see it, We encourage people to listen to what we have to say, we encourage people to accept a copy of the Book of Mormon and to read it. We just want people to give the Book of Mormon and other things a sincere look, and we invite you to pray to God to find out for yourself if it's true.
Originally Posted By Mr X Oh, and they have Japanese Jehovah's Witnesses too! AND, they all speak English and carry English materials around (ugh!).
Originally Posted By jonvn "And they are very good at what they do, too...very difficult to shoo them away once they get their foot in the door in my experience. " I am able to make them leave on their own accord just fine.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Somebody needs to answer this because I never know the difference between Mormon faith and Jehovah Witness.I once told the faith person knocking at my door that I was a non-believer. Next thing I knew an entire group of people was at the end of my sidewalk praying for me. >> Sounds more like Protestant Fundamentalists.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I don't follow your logic here. We have hundreds of thousands of missionaries "leaving the 99" to invite others to join the fold.<< Sorry, I obviously wasn't clear. I mean that efficiency and essentially corporate decisions shouldn't be used to influence the spirituality of your members. I spoke to a psychiatrist who advised the church on their "raising the bar" program. He told me how the whole thing was basically about charts and pie graphs, how 6.8% (it's something like that) of missionaries come home early and how they set a goal to reduce that to less than 3%. That sounds like when I go to work and we talk about subscriber churn and how we need to reduce it. They set the "raising the bar" standards with efficiency and church goals in mind, with little thought for the individual missionaries who have been waiting their whole lives to go on a mission. So when I said leaving the 99 and going after the 1, I meant that the missionary is the 1. In my experience, orthodoxy and mental security for believers is also more important than widening the Mormon tent for someone like me. I'd actually love to participate in the church. I don't participate, not because of Mormon history or my lack of belief but because I'm not really welcome. The church values orthodoxy and conformity over the participation of fringe members and non-believers.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<And they are very good at what they do, too...very difficult to shoo them away once they get their foot in the door in my experience. >> Ask them if they will join you in praying the Rosary. Their look of horror alone is well worth it.
