Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Ok. You've gone and done it now. You've gone and triggered a kozy attack where she will make numerous nasty personal attacks against you while railing on about how you are attacking her. That is her way. Don't say I didn't warn you."<<< No-that's your modus operandi, RT.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< You've gone and triggered a[n] ... attack where she will make numerous nasty personal attacks against you while railing on about how you are attacking her. >>> Isn't it odd how this pattern repeats itself over and over on message boards? Someone will post something that challenges another's idea or point of view, only to have that other person mistakenly interpret it as a personal attack, and then that person points this out to everyone (sometimes even referring to how this is against the message board rules) and then within the same post launches an actual personal attack against the other person. I'm sure there must be a term for this.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< <<'Sacred' and 'Secret' are two different things.>> Indeed. The Mass is very sacred for Catholics, as they believe that bread and wine are converted into the Body and Blood of Jesus. Yet anyone can attend (to watch). After the consecration is complete. the Priest will raise the host above his head and proclaim: "Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world". What could be more sacred to follower of Jesus? >>> I was just about to say the same thing. I've been in the position as a non-Catholic of skipping Communion during Mass. It didn't offend me at all, nor did it seem designed to make me feel as an outsider. It's right out there in the open for all to see. I've been to Catholic weddings, various types of Protestant weddings, non-religious weddings, Jewish weddings, and so on. There's a wide variety of ceremony and different practices. But I've never been to a Mormon wedding, as they're held in the temple and non-Mormons aren't welcome. I understand that even close blood relatives (such as even the father and mother of the bride) are not allowed at the wedding ceremony if they're not Mormon. I think that really rubs people the wrong way, and the bumper-sticker phrase of "it's sacred, not secret" doesn't eliminate this.
Originally Posted By Tiggirl Every Catholic Mass I've been too, they've always offered a chance for those who are not Catholic to come up and receive a blessing while others are taking communion. I'm not Catholic but I always thought that was really welcoming on their part. ~Beth
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "The topic here is "Honest Questions about Mormons". Your topic that you started obviously had a personal agenda of which you carried on and on about and have started here on this topic too." What does that have to do with this topic? I have answered questions in THIS THREAD honestly and fairly and would ask any Mormon on THIS THREAD if that's not the case. On my other thread I openly admitted that I got carried away and apologized. I'm not sure what I have done to offend you so please let me know as that what was not my intention.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "I guess I'd like someone to tell me that this is not the "norm."" I know that Mormons do not like crosses and do not permit them in their churches. I've never witnessed them trying to forbid someone from wearing one, though it does not sound terribly surprising.
Originally Posted By barboy "I'm sure there must be a term for this." --- how about something straight up and not too fancy like: "hypocrisy"
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< She was again told to remove the necklace, and that she was unwelcome if she did not. >>> So much for "Visitors Welcome", eh?
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"I have answered questions in THIS THREAD honestly and fairly and would ask any Mormon on THIS THREAD if that's not the case."<<< My apologies for not giving you specifics. I was referring to posts 24,64. How about answering questions sans the digs? >>"...ask any Mormon on THIS THREAD if that's not the case..."<<< And I am answering.
Originally Posted By dlkozy I have never seen anyone question someone in regards to their jewelry. My DD was given one as a gift and she wore it proudly to church many times w/o anyone saying anything. So, 8thdwarf's post, >>>"though it does not sound terribly surprising"<<< does sound surprising to me.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I asked DH what the deal was with the cross, and I "get" what he explained. What I DON'T get, is why the church's members would react in that manner to an 11 year old girl. DD has never stepped foot in a Mormon church again and refuses to do so. She doesn't attend her cousin's baptisms, and hasn't attended family members' funerals.?> I find this story so sad. I've never heard of such a thing in an LDS church to turn someone away like that or ask to remove a necklace. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I've never witnessed them trying to forbid someone from wearing one, though it does not sound terribly surprising.> That's not surprising to you? Have you EVER heard of someone being asked to take off necklace to come in a church?
Originally Posted By tiggertoo To MOLLYSMOM: That’s atrocious. I’ve never seen, nor heard—until now of course—of ANYONE ever being turned away from attending church for anything remotely like that. Only once did I see someone asked to leave and that is because he had a shirt on which said “**** God.†Furthermore, church leaders such as Bishops, et al… are almost always open to listen to the concerns and complaints of member and non-members alike. Seriously, if I had been on my mission at that time and witnessed something like that, I would have been on the phone to my mission president faster than lightening and that member probable would have gotten a call either from the Mission president himself or his/her stake president admonishing the member. I know it’s over and done, but you might want to contact the missionaries anyhow so that they can bring it to the attention of the church leaders. Neither you nor I would ever wish any other poor unfortunate innocent like your daughter to undergo a similar experience. Not only will the member be talked to, but there would more than likely be a talk (or sermon) in church given to the general congregation explaining how to treat visitors to the church, as well as emblems like the cross or pagan symbols. I can almost guarantee that they will be as appalled as I was when I heard this tale. Poor dear. ***(((hugs or MOLLYSMOM’s daughter)))***
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<I know that Mormons do not like crosses and do not permit them in their churches. I've never witnessed them trying to forbid someone from wearing one, though it does not sound terribly surprising.>> When I was on my mission—yes, yet another return missionary who’s gone apostate, so to speak—we had members and investigators who wore the cross on necklaces or earrings all the time. No one’s ever said a word about it, in fact, welcomed them with open arms. I don’t think it is so much that the church prohibits them in the church, but that they choose to commemorate not the death of Jesus symbolized by the cross, but his ascension symbolized by the steeple. I know a missionary who was a convert to the church who had a huge tattoo of the cross on his back. He could not only attend church, but the temple as well. I think though that in some areas in Utah or Idaho where there are a very high percentage of LDS, that you see more of the “bumpkin church†I like to call them that tend to be more suspicious of all things “non-Mormon.â€
Originally Posted By fkurucz << But I've never been to a Mormon wedding, as they're held in the temple and non-Mormons aren't welcome. I understand that even close blood relatives (such as even the father and mother of the bride) are not allowed at the wedding ceremony if they're not Mormon. I think that really rubs people the wrong way, and the bumper-sticker phrase of "it's sacred, not secret" doesn't eliminate this.>> I have never understood the secrecy thing. It reminds me of the Freemasons and other secret societies.
Originally Posted By Mr X Interestingly, kooroots, I've read some claims that the religious clothing Mormons wear matches the freemason symbols...but then I read other conflicting claims as well (and since the Mormons ain't talkin, I guess we'll never know lol).
Originally Posted By tiggertoo Mr. X, Yes, the symbols are similar to the Masonic symbols, but more appropriately, from the Temple of Solomon from which the Masons borrowed them. In answer to your original question (in post #1),it’s an intro to a prayer is all. It essentially beseeching God to hear you, the same way “Oh…our most high God†or any other address to God would be used in prayer. It’s supposed to be ancient Adamic language. <<It reminds me of the Freemasons and other secret societies.>> Maybe so, but let’s put things into context for a moment. In the Bible, the Temple of Solomon and other Hebrew temples were largely exclusive—while the courts of the temple were open to people, the temple itself was only open to priests, and the Holy of Holies only open to the High Priest. So while it might seem odd to us, as part of an open and free society, there is historical and indeed Biblical precedence for the exclusiveness of temples. Would Christians call Elijah or Ezekiel being secretive? The Holy of Holies as was the temple were sacred, and that’s basically the reason Mormons give for their exclusivity in temple attendance.
