Originally Posted By Mr X I agree, Churro...I was going to say something but you beat me to it. The guy is entitled to his opinions same as everyone else, and that's all he was offering in those posts.
Originally Posted By jonvn "No, it's consistency of keeping the temple a sacred place " No, it's shunning and ostracism. Cult like behavior. So is secrecy. These behviors are why people call your church a cult. There are not secrets to the doctrines of other major religions, Jews, Catholics, Baptists, etc. You know full well what they believe in. To become a Jew, in fact, requires a huge amount of study and learning. They don't let you do it unless you know full well what you are getting into. I understand Catholics are similar. They have a lot of counseling and learning that goes on. They let you in fast, but they want you to know, too. Contrast that with Mormons. They have secret rituals and they shun. Just like Scientology. You see lapsed Catholics everywhere. They aren't shunned. They are welcome. Same with Jews. Many Jews are totally secular now. That doesn't mean they are not fully and wholly accepted as Jews. The mormons come off as very cult like in this regard. You can't get around that.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <At an individual home, do both missionaries of the pair go to the door, or do they split up once in a neighborhood??> They don't split up.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <What does "investigators" mean in this context??> People investigating the church, usually by meeting with the missionaries t o discuss the doctrines.
Originally Posted By utahjosh You know, I understand that the secrecy may make people think "cult." Just don't think dangerous or crazy. Sure, there are some things that we don't 'talk about outside the Temple. However, it's not hidden doctrine, it's nothing that would surprise people, it's not anything different really from what the LDS people study outside the temple. They are just ordinances that we keep separate and sacred and are only for a certain place, with those who are fully living the teaching of the LDS church to the best of their abilities.
Originally Posted By FaMulan The main issue I feel is, in LDS there are several levels of non-clergy membership. Some get to go into secret places, some don't. In other religions, Catholicism and Judaism, there are the clergy and the laity. The Clergy are the ones who are taught to lead the laity in aspects of worship. Yes, there are gradients of each religion from very secular to heavily orthodox, but the laity is not allowed into the mysteries of the religion unless they start training for the Clergy. I have never gotten that impression from LDS. There are "classes" so to speak of members and there is a sense of elitism there. My best friend from High School's family converted to LDS as a family, though the eldest daughter decided not to. My best friend married outside the faith and all her bridesmaids (her sister, me and another friend) were all non-Mormon. She was married in a side chapel of her local church because of all these non-Mormons, when at a Jewish or Catholic Wedding, the ceremony is held in the main church for all and sundry to attend because a wedding is the day of joy for the couple and should be freely shared with the friends and family of the couple regardless of faith. As has been said earlier, anyone can walk into a Mass or Jewish Temple Service and feel welcomed. It's hard to feel welcomed when you're told there's a place of worship you can't go into.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <As has been said earlier, anyone can walk into a Mass or Jewish Temple Service and feel welcomed.> And the LDS church has thousands of Chapels and open meetings - especially our most important Sacrament Meeting - every Sunday that we invite anyone to.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal "In other religions, Catholicism and Judaism, there are the clergy and the laity. The Clergy are the ones who are taught to lead the laity in aspects of worship. Yes, there are gradients of each religion from very secular to heavily orthodox, but the laity is not allowed into the mysteries of the religion unless they start training for the Clergy." I'm trying to figure out if you're referring to Judaism and Catholicism in this sentence, or to Mormonism. Judaism does not have any requirements regarding specific religious training in order to lead services. Any person who has knows enough to lead a service may lead one. Being a rabbi does not make one more qualified to lead worship. Some synagogues or havurot (groups of Jews who meet to worship) do not have rabbis and their worship is just as valid in Judaism. Rabbis are not required for most rituals in Judaism such as weddings, bar/bat mitzvah, confirmation, etc. I am not overly familiar with all aspects of Catholicism but I believe that a Priest is required for many such life cycle rituals as well as formal worship, no?
Originally Posted By utahjosh Wait... maybe I'm supposed to be pointing out everything I disagree with about Judaism, picking out little parts of the culture and religion and making fun of their sacred clothing and rituals. No? Oh, good, I didn't want to.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I think not allowing a parent to attend their child's wedding because they drink coffee is dangerous. (So much for that Commandment.) That sort of thinking is extremely dangerous (not to mention a few other choice adjectives), IMO. It's the sort of illogical pettiness that is killing religion. It seems an insult to God to use his name for something so absurd. I couldn't care less if people don't drink coffee but to try to separate families because of it is just plain stupid. I truly believe that God has much bigger fish to fry and that many of our most vocal (showy) religious people in this world are in for a rude awakening.
Originally Posted By Mr X **I am not overly familiar with all aspects of Catholicism but I believe that a Priest is required for many such life cycle rituals as well as formal worship, no?** Pretty much correct...although lay people can be allowed to preform certain duties such as being a Eucharistic minister (offer the communion to people). The sacraments though, I think must be done by a priest.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Also, I am curious how any LDS on these boards feel about the Baptism of the Dead, especially holocaust victims?
Originally Posted By FaMulan I'm trying to figure out if you're referring to Judaism and Catholicism in this sentence,<< As always, I was speaking from my personal experience. My husband is a very secularized Jew and I'm a Catholic lapsed for 32 years. I've been to one event in a Jewish Temple, the Bar Mitzvah of a family friend, which was presided over by a Rabbi, and to which all family and friends of the young man were invited to attend and rejoice in his coming of age as a Jew. I know there are other gradient of officients such as the mohel who specializes in the circumcision ritual, but they, like rabbi's have had probably more training in aspects of the religion than the person in the temple congregation. I understand that due to the necessities of generations of persecution, that Judiasm has become a more home-based religion with many rituals based more in home than at the temple, but the fathers that lead the Passover Seder aren't necessarily the ones leading the prayers in Temple after sunset on a Friday night. I'm sure it also depends on how orthodox a version of Judaism one practices.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"You are a crazy person. There was nothing hostile or snide in any of your cited posts. Eighthdwarf was giving earnest responses to posed questions. Get off your high horse."<<< 8th in the posts cited, could not give an answer without a dig-personal commentary. Tsk, tsk,tsk, calling names Churro Monster- makes it hard to take you seriously.
Originally Posted By barboy "Sure, there are some things that we don't 'talk about outside the Temple" 1st rule of Fight Club: YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT "FIGHT CLUB" 2nd rule of Fight Club: YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT "FIGHT CLUB"
Originally Posted By Mr X **8th in the posts cited, could not give an answer without a dig-personal commentary.** Since when is offering a personal commentary something bad? Who are you to dictate someone else's personal take on things? It's funny how this seems to be a running theme here, and not just with you (at least UtahJosh had the good sense to apologize for it though). And Cozy...trust me it's pretty hard to take you seriously too, with the ranting and raving and all that. Churro was right in calling you out.
Originally Posted By dlkozy Mr C-Make up your mind-you are the one that started the new topic "Honest Questions About Mormons" and in YOUR first post said, >>>"Well, since this subject has obviously come up and a lot of people are looking for answers "<<< Did you want answers or personal commentary or can't you make up your mind? Why start a new topic when we already had 8ths? >>>"Who are you to dictate someone else's personal take on things?"<<< EXACTLY-who do you think YOU are?
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Churro was right in calling you out"<<< When one has to stoop to calling names it is because they can't think of anything else to say-guess you can't either.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Did you want answers or personal commentary or can't you make up your mind?** Both would be fine. **When one has to stoop to calling names it is because they can't think of anything else to say-guess you can't either.** When did I call you names?
