Originally Posted By liveforvacations This is my first post in World Events so everyone please be nice to me!!!LOL! I do not practice any religion although I was baptized Catholic. I personally have a problem with the catholic religion as a whole because of exactly the opposite reasons everyone seems to have about the Mormons. I know a few Catholics who I would say are "true Catholics". The rest seem to be "convenient Catholics" in that they get married in a Catholic church, baptize their children and have them confirmed and have their funerals in a Catholic church but go to church once a year on Christmas Eve. In my opinion, they profess to be Catholics and when it suits them, will tell you that something is wrong because it says it in the bible. A "convenient Catholic" friend actually told me once that my new baby was going to go to hell because I wasn't baptizing her. So therefore, in my opinion, why would I want to belong to a religion that professes to have all sorts of requirements but allows their members to use them at their convenience. For a fee, of course and in my opinion money is the reason the Catholic church does not require more from their members! Although I have no desire be Mormon, I respect that they have requirements, rules etc. and they expect their members to follow them in order to be a part of their religion. In my opinion, if you know that your parent cannot come to your wedding if he is not a true Mormon, you have to make that decision if you want to be married in their temple. With regard to them keeping what goes on in the temples a "secret", it is their right and I am sure that if everyone is willing to become a Mormon and live as one, you too can find out the "secrets". I for one will not be joining as I do not desire to live by their rules but have respect for all those that do!
Originally Posted By liveforvacations I just wanted to add that I also have respect for any member of any religion that practices it as their church requires! My aunt is Catholic and is the person I respect most in the world and if all Catholics were like her, I would feel more favorably about the Catholic religion.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"When did I call you names?"<<< >>>"And Cozy...trust me it's pretty hard to take you seriously too, with the ranting and raving and all that. Churro was right in calling you out."<<<
Originally Posted By Mr X Right...so when did I call you names? I described your behavior, maybe you should go back and read all the stuff you wrote.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"I described your behavior..."<<< Dicussion board. Not personal attack board. Not even when someone stands up and says I DISAGREE-whether you like it or not.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>"Right...so when did I call you names?"<<< When you hide behind someone else's posts and agree you are saying the same thing.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I think not allowing a parent to attend their child's wedding because they drink coffee is dangerous. (So much for that Commandment.) That sort of thinking is extremely dangerous (not to mention a few other choice adjectives), IMO. It's the sort of illogical pettiness that is killing religion. It seems an insult to God to use his name for something so absurd.<< Yup. There's another aspect of this that makes me question the whole notion of "pure" and "holy" in keeping people out. Mormon children aren't allowed in the temple to see their own older brothers and sisters get married. My younger brother couldn't come in - not due to disbelief, but because he was too young. This rule extends from infants all the way to anyone under the age of 19, who hasn't gone through the ritual of the temple.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <He could not only attend church, but the temple as well.> Here's an honest question from a non-Mormon to the Mormon LP'ers, then. What exactly are the distinctions between church and temple? I didn't quite realize before this topic that there were any. But it seems like some services are open to outsiders (the "regular" Sunday service?), but that others are not. Is the temple typically the "innermost" church on the same property, or is it a separate site? Which services are open to non-Mormons and which are not? Do you have to have a membership card or something (is this the "temple recommend?") to gain admittance to the closed ones? Otherwise, how would they know you weren't just a visiting Mormon from out of town? It seems you can lose your "Mormon in good standing" status by doing something like drinking alcohol or coffee. What happens if someone sees you drinking coffee, but you don't admit to it? How does one's status get taken away? Do you have to reaffirm your status periodically, like renewing a driver's license? If person X swears they see you drinking coffee at Dunkin' Donuts every morning, but you swear that's not true, what happens? And is it okay to drink decaf coffee? Decaf tea? Decaf coke? I don't mean any of this to sound flip - these are all questions that have come to me as I've read this topic, and I'm interested in the answers.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<<That is her way. Don't say I didn't warn you.>> LOL... I told you so!! ;-)
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Wait... maybe I'm supposed to be pointing out everything I disagree with about Judaism, picking out little parts of the culture and religion and making fun of their sacred clothing and rituals. >>> Keep in mind that the context of this thread is probably in relation to the other ones regarding Mitt Romney's candidacy for President. I think that a lot of what is being discussed is very relevant in that context. LDS is a religion that great many people know very little about (and some of this is apparently by design), and the fact that Romney has a good chance of getting the Republican nomination has brought this topic to the forefront and people want to know more. And the way that many Mormons have reacted in these threads only serves to re-affirm peoples' suspicions. Put another way, I don't think people just decided out of the blue to make January "pick on Mormons" month.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Many religions have aspects that are private... I don't know that what goes on is necessarily 'secret'. It is more a way of making something seem special and removed from daily life. For instance... My wife had two uncles that were priests and three aunts that were nuns (all have died now except one of the priests). Her mother was the only child in the family that did not have a vocation. Although this is no longer the case, when my wife was growing up there were very strict rules concerning the Convents. When they went to visit her aunts her father and brother had to remain outside in the car. No men were allowed inside the convent. Although women were allowed inside, they could not dine in the same room as the sisters. They would have to take their meals in a separate room. Was there anything hugely secret going on in the convents? I don't think so (perhaps in the rectories, but not in the convents). ;-) The rules were intended to set those in a religious vocation slightly apart form the regular world. I really see nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with the Mormons wanting to keep portions of their traditions and services unto themselves.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'll just offer some Jerry Springer "final thoughts" on Mormonism. There will always be a part of me that loves my Mormon heritage. Whatever you say about it, it's a fascinating, rich, culture. It's made up of people who are decent, kind human beings just making their way through the world as best they can. Most were born into it and so it shapes their worldview from birth. Others find it and find a family to join. I still write and research on Mormonism (just had a new article published this week, actually) and I think I always will. As anyone can see, I'm not hesitant about being critical (sometimes deeply so) of things that I think are harmful or foolish in Mormonism - the division of families over ideology, a stubborn clinging to literalism, institutionalized bigotry and racism, etc. I'm also not at all hesitant to defend it when I think it deserves it. In my limited experience with Evangelicals in different jobs I've had outside of Utah, and as a Mormon missionary, and on these boards, I've found that they almost always misunderstand Mormonism. Sometimes, the facts are just plain wrong. But when they're right, they still don't apply them correctly. They're absolutely giddy to spread Mormonism's "strange" beliefs - that they believe God was once a man and man can become like God, that Jesus and Satan are brothers, etc., etc. But it couldn't be clearer that none of them have ever attended Mormon worship services more than once, if ever. Mormons don't sit in church learning how to become gods and govern their own planets. These kinds of beliefs are secondary, or even tertiary, to much more core beliefs about family, how to be better people, how to live clean lives, how to apply the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus to their lives, etc. These other topics don't come up too often at all, in my experience. So while Evangelicals use those beliefs to highlight differences and point out why Mormons are not mainstream Christian, or not Christian at all, they really miss crucial details and opportunities to truly understand the faith.
Originally Posted By dlkozy >>>" And the way that many Mormons have reacted in these threads only serves to re-affirm peoples' suspicions."<<< What way would that be?
Originally Posted By Mr X **that they believe God was once a man and man can become like God, that Jesus and Satan are brothers, etc., etc. But it couldn't be clearer that none of them have ever attended Mormon worship services more than once, if ever.** All the more reason to ask questions! Here's one I am curious about...is it true that Brigham Young (one of the early founders right?) preached things that the church has now denied like that Adam is the one who became god and stuff like that?
Originally Posted By dlkozy RT, you are nothing if not entertaining. I am not going to let you or anyone else sully my integrity and I will respond to name calling and likewise childish behavior. You have been admined before on it but you continue your pattern. You still cannot be part of a discussion sans personal attacks.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>What exactly are the distinctions between church and temple?<< The church, as you guessed correctly, is where normal worship services are held on Sundays. There might be activities held there during the week as well. It typically has several classrooms, a chapel, and a small multi-purpose room with basketball hoops and a stage for different events. While there are several thousand chapels, the number of temples just recently cracked the 100 mark. The temple is reserved for very specific ceremonies. The first time Mormons attend the temple, it is for themselves to receive "endowments" - blessings from God and to make covenants with him. Any time after that, Mormons do this work for the dead, but are still encouraged to go to learn more about the temple. To go to the temple, Mormons have a bi-annual interview with ecclesiastical leaders on their "worthiness." They're asked questions like if they believe in God and Jesus, if they believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, etc. One of those questions is on the Mormon health code, The Word of Wisdom. Initially meant as good advice (Joseph Smith drank beer, for example), today it's become part of a litmus test for what makes a good Mormon and it's specifically defined as not smoking, not drinking alcohol, coffee, tea, or doing illegal drugs. If Mormons give satisfactory answers, they're issued a Temple Recommend that gains them access to Mormon temples. It's tough to say how it's approached if someone spots you breaking one of these taboos. There's no hard and fast rules; it's most likely up to the leader. If it was something more serious, then others can testify against you in a church court and you can be excommunicated. For example, if someone was having an affair and the other person felt guilty and confessed, the other person could testify in a church court even if you denied it. >>And is it okay to drink decaf coffee? Decaf tea? Decaf coke?<< Gray areas. Most people will say not to drink decaf coffee to "avoid the appearance of evil." Coke's a whole different matter. Mormons are divided, sometimes heatedly so, over whether caffeinated sodas are ok or not ok to drink. Certainly someone would not be denied a temple recommend for drinking it.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>All the more reason to ask questions! Here's one I am curious about...is it true that Brigham Young (one of the early founders right?) preached things that the church has now denied like that Adam is the one who became god and stuff like that?<< As the historical record becomes more complete, the church (to its credit) has gotten much better about owning up to and acknowledging these sorts of things. If not always officially, they've mostly stopped disciplining those members who do write about these things. Brigham Young appears to have believed that Adam and God were the same person. It's not entirely clear what he meant by this so-called "Adam-God" doctrine, but it goes along with the idea of Mormon progression from man to God. Again, I need to stress, this sort of thing is fascinating, but you won't find many Mormons today who have even heard of this, and probably zero who actually believe it.
Originally Posted By ecdc At the risk of having my post labeled "disingenuous" again, let me add that there are a few books on the Adam-God theory and all of Brigham Young and other's statements on the topic. I was never particularly interested in the topic, so I don't know as much as others do, but there's definitely more information out there for those interested.
