Originally Posted By thethe1 Hillary Said;>> "We have a culture of corruption, we have cronyism, we have incompetence," she said. "I predict to you that this administration will go down in history as one of the worst that has ever governed our country." << I give her this much she has huts bah (did I spell that right) her and her crook for a husband Bill had the most corrupt administration in history, and she thinks we have forgotten it already.
Originally Posted By woody I think I can safely say Hillary is an extremist radical leftist. She used the same language as Newt Gingrich. Newt Gingrich used "plantation" in 1994.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Bush was the President on 8/6/01 when the PDB called "binLaden determined to strike in U.S." was released. He didn't read it.> He was briefed on it. That's why they call it the Presidential Daily Brief. <Four planes made U-turns in the sky and for an hour, the president sat in at a photo op with 2nd graders while the course of human history was also being redirected and hijacked.> That's a gross mischaracterization of what happened. <Did oceans protect us when the British Redcoats came over from England in 1776?> Yes. Washington defeated Cornwallis when the French prevent the English fleet from reinforcing Cornwallis at Yorktown. <Bush has completely reversed all of that good will and isolated America so much that many of our closest allies no longer trust us.> That's a statement that cannot be supported by evidence. <The Middle East is more volatile, not safer.> Of course, it's also more free. <Bush #43 has run up more foreign debt in 5 years than the other 42 Presidents COMBINED!> That's simply untrue. <If we were a corporation, we would have to declare bankruptcy.> As is that. Our debt load is relatively small. Much smaller than many other countries.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <When you're right, you're right.> And when you're left, you're left. And bboisvert is left.
Originally Posted By woody <Bush was the President on 8/6/01 when the PDB called "binLaden determined to strike in U.S." was released. He didn't read it.> "He was briefed on it. That's why they call it the Presidential Daily Brief." Condi Rice was asked about it. She said it had no "actionable" intelligence in it. Only rehashed past information. <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020516-13.html" target="_blank">http://www.whitehouse.gov/news /releases/2002/05/20020516-13.html</a> "Now, on August 6th, the President received a presidential daily briefing which was not a warning briefing, but an analytic report. This analytic report, which did not have warning information in it of the kind that said, they are talking about an attack against so forth or so on, it was an analytic report that talked about UBL's methods of operation, talked about what he had done historically, in 1997, in 1998. It mentioned hijacking, but hijacking in the traditional sense, and in a sense, said that the most important and most likely thing was that they would take over an airliner, holding passengers and demand the release of one of their operatives. And the blind sheikh was mentioned by name as -- even though he's not an operative of al Qaeda, but as somebody who might be bargained in this way." "I want to reiterate, it was not a warning. There was no specific time, place or method mentioned. What you have seen in the run-up that I've talked about is that the FAA was reacting to the same kind of generalized information about a potential hijacking as a method that al Qaeda might employ, but no specific information saying that they were planning such an attack at a particular time. "
Originally Posted By patrickegan I said Hill in the first post sorry the story was so obscure. If it were a republican being quoted it would be international news by now. Hmmm, I though Robert Bird was in the Senate?
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Bush #43 has run up more foreign debt in 5 years than the other 42 Presidents COMBINED!> That's simply untrue. << It is true douglas, and we talked about this on these boards at the time the report was issued. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bush Borrowed More Than All Previous Presidents Combined By Melanie Hunter CNSNews.com Senior Editor November 04, 2005 (CNSNews.com) - President Bush and the current administration have borrowed more money from foreign governments and banks than the previous 42 presidents combined, a group of conservative to moderate Democrats said Friday. Blue Dog Coalition, which describes itself as a group "focused on fiscal responsibility," called the administration's borrowing practices "astounding." According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion. "The seriousness of this rapid and increasing financial vulnerability of our country can hardly be overstated," said Rep. John Tanner (D-Tenn.), a leader of the Blue Dog Coalition and member of the House Ways and Means Committee. "The financial mismanagement of our country by the Bush Administration should be of concern to all Americans, regardless of political persuasion," said Tanner in a press release. "No American political leadership has ever willfully and deliberately mortgaged our country to foreign interests in the manner we have witnessed over the past four years," said Tanner. "If this recklessness is not stopped, I truly believe our economic freedom as American citizens is in great jeopardy."
Originally Posted By bboisvert <Bush was the President on 8/6/01 when the PDB called "binLaden determined to strike in U.S." was released. He didn't read it.> <<He was briefed on it. That's why they call it the Presidential Daily Brief.>> ...but did nothing about it and then said that no one could have ever imagined that someone would use airliners as missiles. I'm not saying Bush caused 9/11. I'm not blaming Bush for 9/11 even though some left-wingers do. I'm simply saying that folks seem to forget that we were attacked on Bush's watch and we still haven't caught Bin Laden. <Four planes made U-turns in the sky and for an hour, the president sat in at a photo op with 2nd graders while the course of human history was also being redirected and hijacked.> <<That's a gross mischaracterization of what happened.>> Yet the fact remains that four planes made U-turns while the President sat in a classroom instead of aborting the photo-op and being a leader. No call to the FAA, no scrambling of fighters, nothing. <Did oceans protect us when the British Redcoats came over from England in 1776?> <<Yes. Washington defeated Cornwallis when the French prevent the English fleet from reinforcing Cornwallis at Yorktown.>> The French Navy is not an ocean. <Bush has completely reversed all of that good will and isolated America so much that many of our closest allies no longer trust us.> <<That's a statement that cannot be supported by evidence.>> How many countries are left in our grand "Coalition of the Willing"? Ever read any foreign news reports about the US? They're not flattering of U.S policy. From what I hear and read, they find it abhorrent that the US has had such a downturn. They want to look up to America, but they simply can't when presented with the facts that are much clearer when the filters of the American corporate news agencies are removed. <The Middle East is more volatile, not safer.> <<Of course, it's also more free.>> As long as you're in the "Green Zone", right? Would you go there? It's more free now... <Bush #43 has run up more foreign debt in 5 years than the other 42 Presidents COMBINED!> <<That's simply untrue.>> <a href="http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=" target="_blank">http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNat ion.asp?Page=</a>%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200511/NAT20051104b.html According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion. <If we were a corporation, we would have to declare bankruptcy.> <<As is that. Our debt load is relatively small. Much smaller than many other countries.>> Yet our debt continues to rise, more and more Americans continue to struggle to make ends meet, and the gap between wealthy and poor is wider than ever.
Originally Posted By patrickegan Never before have people had to struggle to make ends meet on their necessary cell phone/sidekicks bills, I-pods, cars, internet access, video games platforms/subscriptions and HDTV. Around the turn of the last century electronic accessories consisted of a fan, light bulb, radio and a toaster.
Originally Posted By bboisvert <<Never before have people had to struggle to make ends meet on their necessary cell phone/sidekicks bills, I-pods, cars, internet access, video games platforms/subscriptions and HDTV. Around the turn of the last century electronic accessories consisted of a fan, light bulb, radio and a toaster.>> Here's what I know. I don't have any of those "necessary items" except a cell phone and internet access, both of which are paid for by my employer as a means of doing my job. It's not a creature comfort for them. It's how they do business. My gross pay is 25% less today than 6 years ago. My health insurance costs me 4x what it did 6 years ago. I'm very fortunate that I'm able to make my payments and my family lives well. But there have been some rough spots. So many others can't say the same thing. It's not always because of binge spending on iPods and electronic gadgets, as the talk shows would have you believe. Just ask the Katrina victims. Or the cancer patient with no health insurance. Or the tradesman laid off due to outsourcing. Or the 40-year retiree who's pension just evaporated due to some crooked accountancy. The victim isn't always to blame, but it sure is easier that way.
Originally Posted By patrickegan What I’m stating is the obvious our standard of living has never been higher. Your view is myopic if things were that bad we wouldn’t have people sneaking in by the millions or ridding inner-tubes on the open ocean.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Shifting the argument, Patrick? You said that people had difficulty making ends meet because they had a lot of luxuries to pay for. Bboisvert responded by referring to stagnant wages, increased healthcare costs and the loss of pensions while also noting that the luxuries you listed were things that he doesn't have. Then you said that our standard of living has never been higher, and that he was short sighted because people are trying to get into this country. But that has nothing to do with what you originally said, or how he responded to you. Wages are stagnant. Health care costs for employees are rising. Pension plans are going away left and right. Our dollars don't go as far as they did six years ago in the marketplace. That doesn't mean that our standard of living is low, or that others don't want to come to our country. It just means we aren't as well off as we were as a nation six years ago.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <It is true douglas, and we talked about this on these boards at the time the report was issued.> It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. Presidents don't borrow money from foreign governments and banks. Yes, they present budgets, and yes, those budgets have had deficits, however, those deficits have not been greater than those of all other administrations combined. To meet those deficits, the government issues bonds, which are bought on the open market. The fact that a lot of foreign governments and banks have bought our bonds is a sign of the strength of our economy, and the confidence others have in it. <Yet our debt continues to rise, more and more Americans continue to struggle to make ends meet, and the gap between wealthy and poor is wider than ever.> The annual deficit is declining, and Americans are continuing to grow more wealthy. Because of the 2003 tax cuts, more revenue is flowing into the federal treasury than would have without them, and our economy is flourishing. Inflation is low, unemployment is low, and ecomonic growth is high.
Originally Posted By iluvdisneyland "It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. Presidents don't borrow money from foreign governments and banks. Yes, they present budgets, and yes, those budgets have had deficits, however, those deficits have not been greater than those of all other administrations combined. " So you're saying you are a more reliable source than CBS News and CNN?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <...but did nothing about it and then said that no one could have ever imagined that someone would use airliners as missiles.> Not true. In a August 2002 interview, Richard Clarke noted that the Bush administration, in January of 2001, decided to do two things to respond to the threat of terrorism: "One, to vigorously pursue the existing policy, including all the lethal covert action finds which we have now made public, to some extent; the second thing the administration decided to do was to initiate a process to look at these issues which had been on the table for a couple of years and get them decided.'' In other words, President Bush's response to terrorists was much more aggressive than President Clinton's was. <Yet the fact remains that four planes made U-turns while the President sat in a classroom instead of aborting the photo-op and being a leader. No call to the FAA, no scrambling of fighters, nothing.> I'm not sure it's accurate to say that all four planes made U-turns, but even if it was, so what? Planes make U-turns all the time, and it's the FAA's job to notify the administration if something's wrong, not vice-versa. It sounds like you expect the President to be psychic. <The French Navy is not an ocean.> Still, the ocean has deterred enemy attacks, by making them more difficult. The Germans never attacked us with tanks, the way they did France and Russia. The Japanese weren't able to invade and occupy us, the way the did China. <How many countries are left in our grand "Coalition of the Willing"?> Most of them. <Ever read any foreign news reports about the US?> Yes. And I've read how Germany just threw out an anti-American chancellor, and elected one more favorable to us. <As long as you're in the "Green Zone", right?> No, all over. Including other countries that are now reforming to make themselves more democratic. <Would you go there?> If someone invited me and paid the bills, sure.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <So you're saying you are a more reliable source than CBS News and CNN?> Yes.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy bboisvert is the exact guy that I like to nail. You will blame Bush for not stopping 9/11 and will go to Michael Moore talking points to " prove " your case. That in itself exposes you as a left wing moonbat in my opinion. But that's not even the best part. The best part is that the president is doing everything possible to stop terrorists from attacking us, including wiretaps and other strategies. Yet, your the guy who will claim Bush is breaking the law and trampling on peoples civil rights by using these measures. So if we get hit by terrorists, it's Bush's fault. If Bush tries to stop attacks, he needs to be impeached. The left is out of power because of this childish stance regarding national security... I mean, who can trust them to be honest and responsibe? In closing... they never offer any ideas on how they would stop attacks, now do they. France still sucks.
