Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have long been of the opinion that Disney has the mindset of an invinceable Giant. They feel that they can do no wrong. They believe they are putting out the best product in the industry. They believe the product they are offering will be gobbled up by the consumer as it always has been in the past. I guarantee you that their research department has enough graphs, and figures to show that HP will have no more of an impact than IOA had on WDW.>> <<I'd agree with Daannzzz here - I don't think WDW Co. thinks it is putting out the best product in the industry - management believe they are putting out what guests want - they believe they are at least meeting the expectations of most guests.>> You know more than most here ... but I agree. Disney (be it TDO or Burbank) knows it isn't putting out the best product in the industry or the best it can. Hell, I'd say it knows it isn't coming close. But, yeah, after a Decade of Decline and conditioning guests that the Walmarted version of WDW is what Disney quality has always been, they do believe they are meeting the (vastly diminished) expectations of most guests. But that's largely been the idea since the mid-90s ... constantly lowering the bar and the expectations. And the 201 angry, oil-soaked Dalmatians don't think it's kewl. But Harry Potter is!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<<<I am hoping Potter will be the over the top experience people seem to think it will be- totally immersive.>> Some good friends rode multiple times yesterday morning and they were extremely impressed ... and one is not the type to gush about anything and the other is a Disney-loving fanboi through and through. They both agreed it's the best attraction they've been on.>> <<Granted - but it is still one 3-minute (?) experience in a vacation - just one.>> Over 4 minutes to be fair. And that is just the signature attraction. The whole area is completely reimagined. <<Everyone talks of Spidey being the best attraction ever developed (I don't agree) but it didn't have anything other than a negligible impact on WDW - you can see the attendance numbers at IoA - the attraction was hugely expensive and meant to be one of the marquee rides at that park but it didn't draw people in. Will HP be able to do what the best attraction in the industry couldn't?>> I think a lot of factors affected IOA's sluggish start, which still wasn't an epic failure like DCA's was. The marketing (always an issue with UNI) was god-awful. A handful of fanbois playing on their Macs could have come up with better. The whole Universal Escape thing left most people clueless. The park also opened up just 18 months before we were hit by recession and then 9/11. I have no idea (nor does anyone) how things might have gone differently. ... But it wasn't a great time. And I don't want my points to be lost in the fanboi rhetoric. I can't say that Potter is going to fundamentally affect Disney, just that it absolutely has the best chance to do so. But UNI is trying! You don't get coloring with princesses. You don't get 1972 parades brought back for their third (and counting) encore. You don't get 4-minute Omnimover/dark rides being presented as huge additions. You do get that from Disney. And a sense of arrogance that the Mouse is giving guests his white glove. I expect better from Disney (although not the folks making the decisions now) because I was conditioned to. These morons don't seem to grasp that if WDW wasn't built ... and then EC wasn't built. If Eisner and Wells didn't start massive resort building and expand offerings on property with state of the art water parks and an amazing nighttime ADULT entertainment zone ... if people with vision didn't take chances, they wouldn't be able to leech off those accomplishments to sell their timeshares and dining plans and pins and plush etc. If Disney has become so 'risk adverse' (when it is convenient ... see Marvel for example) my advice would be they might need new leadership from the top on down.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Without spilling company secrets, can you say you know of any actual attraction plans (even blue sky) for WDW (not other Disney parks) that attempt to do so?>> <<I'm not privy to WDW at all - I genuinely don't know what is on the boards these days (not that I could share anyhow!).>> That statement speaks volumes, though. Because if Disney had any real significant major plans, then it is very likely you'd have at least a passing knowledge of them. You did know more about the F-land project than anyone else here as for what got cut (well, that's not accounting for whether the Pixie carny ride and all of 'Phase II' also never appears). The point is, WDI isn't good at keeping anything of substance quiet at all. There's nothing to keep quiet now. <<All you can do is look at the quality of the product in the four parks over the last decade and decide whether it in comparable to the quality in previous decades. >> Decade of Decline ... Lee ... Decade of Decline.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We recently stayed at the new Hilton Convention Center it was one of the nicest hotels we have stayed in Orlando and oh yeah it was only $70 a night thru priceline.>> $70?!? Wow! You overpaid!!! I spent 10 nights there in December for $53 a night! <<Beautiful rooms with plush beds and a big lcd tv. Resort style pool with fountains, big waterslide and also a nice lazy river. Can't wait to try the Hilton Bonnet Creek next.>> Yep. In service alone it blew away every single deluxe WDW resort, including the GF. The public areas I would place on par with some Ritz Carltons I've stayed at. The least expensive motel room at WDW without a discount would be $82 a night at the 'value resorts' during 'value season' ... Addicted to pixie dust, I am not!
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 " ^^^Anyone who can't get jacked up while watching a movie like Return of the King has something wrong with them. "RIDE FOR RUIN AND THE WORLD ENDING! DEEEAAATTHHHHHHH!" " In March 2009 we went to NZ and did the "Red Carpet Tours" 12 night tour of the two islands, visiting many locations and meeting people involved with the films. We actually stood on that rise(they have permission from landowners to go to these places)and re-enacted that scene. LOTS of fun and HEARTILY recommended for anybody with even a passing interest in LOTR! <a href="http://www.redcarpet-tours.com/" target="_blank">http://www.redcarpet-tours.com/</a>
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm not going to comment on what was imagineered for Potter but it was a whole lot more than a "ride similar to Buzz". Don't let the Uni PR machine tell you anything different - it was a whole lot more than what Uni committed to build. A multi-attraction experience that had a multi-year build-out.>> I don't know what really went down ... but I have heard enough from people I trust, to safely say there are two sides (or more) to the story. And that ultimately Disney could have had Potter if it wasn't for what largely became a pissing contest as to who needed whom more. I'd rather see Potter in the Disney family than Marvel, but that's me.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "More folks who visit O-Town stay off WDW property than on. Even today. That's a fact, despite Disney's desire to 'capture' every visitor." That described us. We visited in October 2001 and stayed for 23 nights. The Aussie dollar was only worth 50c to one $US so I'd be damned if I'd effectively pay the equivalent of $AUS400 plus PER NIGHT for even a basic room - I just could NOT afford that. Not for TWENTY THREE NIGHTS!!!! HoJo five minutes away(and yes we had a car so weren't captive!)was PERFECTLY fine since we were hardly ever there anyway!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>The marketing (always an issue with UNI) was god-awful. A handful of fanbois playing on their Macs could have come up with better. The whole Universal Escape thing left most people clueless.<<< Agreed. And Marketing might be (have been...) Disney's greatest asset. Even their Nightastic stuff is better than Uni's marketing...Heheh.
Originally Posted By Manfried I have been reading this thread and have one question: Someone please explain to me what WDW's current path is? Until that is defined, we cannot determine what it is trying to do.
Originally Posted By CMDad We have come a long way from when Walt wouldn't do marketing for his park - but made it the best possible experience and let his guests do the marketing.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^Can't say I agree with that...The Disneyland show, World of Color show, even naming SB Castle after a unreleased movie seems like marketing to me.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >>No - the claim was they were going to take over the number 1 spot - not make the Mouse hurt--<< So you're saying it's a given they're going to hurt the Mouse then? lol Regardless, I do really believe that a combined effort of Uni/SW/Legoland/Busch could as a whole surpass the Mouse, if they wanted to. It wouldn't be the end of the world, or World --- as already mentioned by some- they have neither the resources nor the management to do that anytime in the foreseeable future..financially they are not exactly sound and yes, I have stated numerous times that WWoHP will make a dent- the question is - how large and for how long.. remember IOA was supposed to do the same thing long ago- it didn't
Originally Posted By Manfried CMDad says: "We have come a long way from when Walt wouldn't do marketing for his park - but made it the best possible experience and let his guests do the marketing." Uh, wrong. Walt constantly marketed his park on the Disneyland, then The Wonderful World of Color television shows which he hosted. In fact, there were several episodes that did nothing but hype new attractions at the park. So your statement is completely wrong.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 I think what he meant was no billboards, print ads, etc. WDW used to have the same policy. Disney at one point said they weren't going to clutter the highways of FL with billboards for WDW.
Originally Posted By dshyates "and yes, I have stated numerous times that WWoHP will make a dent- the question is - how large and for how long.. remember IOA was supposed to do the same thing long ago- it didn't" Well, even with last years low numbers IOA still drew in just under 4 million people. And The Universal Resort came in just under 10 million. While it is hard to prove, but I do think it is interesting that right about the time IOA appeared, so did things like the Disney Dining plan. So while WDW's numbers have stayed strong they have had to resort to things like free dining, free rooms and more discounts than ever before. SO it is possible that IOA DID put a dent in the mouse. Now with Potter coming and soon Legoland (all now owned or partially owned by Blackstone) I would think it to be a no brainer to start including them into their own MYW ticketing system snd some sort of transportation system. Oh, and someone mentioned adding resorts. Most people missed that Sea World added 2 Marriot properties to an adjacent property recently. In addition to the Rennaissence already there: <a href="http://commerce.4adventure.com/EStore/Scripts/Skins/SWF/HotelPackagesMarriott.aspx" target="_blank">http://commerce.4adventure.com...ott.aspx</a>
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 How many resorts did WDW have in 1989 when MGM opened? That is still not a fair correllation as MGM was a half day park, giving WDW a total of 2.5 parks compared to USF, IOA and SW's three.
Originally Posted By dshyates Don't forget that between Universal and SW there are also 2 waterparks (Aquatica and Wet n' Wild) and Discovery Cove.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << While it is hard to prove, but I do think it is interesting that right about the time IOA appeared, so did things like the Disney Dining plan. >> That's not true. Disney had an all-inclusive package that included dining from the earliest years of WDW. It's obviously changed in terms of emphasis and marketing, but it's always been there from the start. I know because I've used it in various forms since the 1970s. << I think what he meant was no billboards, print ads, etc. WDW used to have the same policy. Disney at one point said they weren't going to clutter the highways of FL with billboards for WDW. >> And then along comes marketing competition to change everythying. Universal has been responsible for an enormous change in the markety philosophy at WDW, and not for the better.
Originally Posted By hopemax Universal has an opportunity to make a dent in Disney's business, but they also have an opportunity to blow it. Since I am planning on going when I am down there around the the grand opening, Universal did succeed in selling me a 3-day ticket, and my parents 2 APs. And now friends are thinking about going too, because if my parents have AP's they won't have to go by themselves. My parents got the APs today, and spent a few hours at USF. They thought it looked clean, TMs were friendly, and were impressed by the food options. But of the attractions they did (Twister, ET, Jaws and Simpsons) they were only happy with Simpsons. The rest seemed "tired" to them. Obviously, they didn't go on the big attractions with their limited time, so when we go for a full day, they might change their overall opinion of the park. But Universal needs to have everything sharp, for the new visitors coming for HP if they want them to come back. My concerns have to do with the HP area. The big thing in online discussions thus far has been the restraints limiting the size of the riders. Lots of riders, are being told they are too big to ride. dshyates knows I am concerned about this already. On the DIS, it has been mentioned that the limitation is a 52" chest, but on orlandounited.com there is mention of 46-48" chest. Because of my girl parts, I am right in that 46-48" range. I think I can squish enough to be fine, I think it will be no problem if it is the 52". But for curiosity, I looked up sizing on Disney.com clothes...46-48" is only a men's XL. If you carry your weight in your belly, that also is a problem, but noone has really posted sizes for that area. Also, if you are tall, there might be issues. Some people 6'3" with long torsos have been turned away. But the problem is how Universal is handling it. Some TMs are courteous and discreet, others not so much. And the test seat OUTSIDE the queue is apparently different from the test seat INSIDE the queue. You may fit outside, only to get near the load area to be told, sorry. It's giving people (me included) a bad taste, before they are even traveling to the park. And can you imagine the bad taste for people to travel and then not be able to ride? On another subject, it appears Merchandise and F&B is going well...a little too well. They are starting to sell out of some merchandise (The $250 brooms, $65 Maurader's Maps, and $9.95 Chocolate Frogs are the 3 things I've seen mentioned.) People report that the managers are shocked by how well the high end stuff is selling and that they are unprepared for it. And while you can see how they might be loathe to order large quantities of hundred dollar items, they are also running out of the Frozen Butterbeer...It's summer in FL, people are going to be interested in frozen drinks, especially yummy ones. Hopefully, this is just because they haven't received their massive shipment that you would assume they would get for opening week. But if I can't get Frozen Butterbeer and a Chocolate Frog during the opening week, I won't be a happy camper.
