Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>The second aspect has been the overall direction of the resort. There is little doubt that WDW is more susceptible to outside influences like the economy and global travel conditions than was previously thought. WDW was largely immune to the blip in '90 when the Gulf War commenced and oil went through the roof. The reason? WDW was a much smaller vacation destination at that time - two and a half theme parks (Disney/MGM had just opened in the previous May as a half-day experience), two water parks and far fewer hotel rooms (think - no Boardwalk, All Stars, Pop Century, DAK Lodge, Wilderness Lodge, Coronado Springs, Port Orleans/Dixie Landings and the first DVC resort didn't open until '91). The vast majority of the hotel expansion was in the period from the start of that recession to '95 - when construction was cheap and so was capital.<<<< Heck, there's a wish.... Can WDW go back to the early 90's?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I think the real question here should be does Disney have to be the last word in theme park design and execution? I couldn't give two squirts of pee about Universal, Spiderman or Harry Potter Land, but even I can accept the fact that Disney isn't always going to be number one with everything thing that they do. And that's okay, right? I don't understand why people obsess about these things. Go enjoy what you like and if you've outgrown Disney find another hobby or activity that you enjoy.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Hmm. Dunno about that. While they are of course, always on the prowl for a new guest that won't know true quality, that won't notice when something is broken, they do seem to like to go back to us, and attempt to placate the "original" fanbase. See: D23. Shame it sucks.>> D23 has nothing to do with placating the 'original' fanbase ... and, really, what is the 'original' fanbase anyway. Are you in it? Me? Folks who were around when WDW opened? When DL did? D23 is Disney's very, very, very, very, very, very late realization that the entire fan community (that includes us and everyone here and everyone from the crazy MAGICal fanbois to the folks who have one zillion pins to those who only vacation at WDW etc) is a powerful voice in 'new media' and Disney would like to direct that voice into a more syrupy, corporate-approved, everything is magical world viewpoint. I'll say again that three years from now, I don't expect D23 to exist. They can't even move the very pricey glossy ad mags at WDW. A few weeks ago every store had copies that were from 2009 ... <<It could/would/should have been a nice little part of the company that said: "Look how great we (once were) are, and why you love us so much", but instead it's just a over obvious ploy to squeeze some money out of us without any substance. If it had substance, I wouldn't mind.>> The Expo was kewl enough from what I understand. But you'll never see one like that again, either. <<...but like the most of WDW (Back the the thread, EE, back to the thread...) it's all style, and great looks, and new facades (MSUSA has tarps!! Looks great!!...oy. ) and no real substance. I had hoped that we would get that at least in TLM. But that looks to be a solid C (D, I know, Spirit...I know.) amongst a land full of beautiful buildings...with nothing in them.>> What you need to understand is the original Jacobson concept was more involved and much more pricey (hundreds of millions have been chopped from the budget), so you're right ... it's all going to be style over substance and not even do much in the huge issue of capacity that has plagued MK for the last 15 years. <<Uni, on the other hand looks to be getting both style and substance...HPland looks spectacular, is going to tell a spectacular story, and have the ride and details to boot. I'm freaking jealous. I want that in WDW. Badly.>> It isn't. Butch up. Deal with it. And buy UNI/IOA tix. <<It's a good thing WDW still has a History and a nostalgia to it, for me, at least.... >> Disney always has ... but it also had one foot in the future with new and cutting edge experiences. There was always something new and exciting coming. But that just kinda stopped after DAK opened. Sure, if you look over the entire four parks (let's leave out the resort/DVC additions for now), new attractions were added over the past decade. Some pretty pricey like Mission Space and EE/Forbidden Mountain, some not so much in things like PhilharMagic and Nemo sea cabs ... but it seems like forever since Disney raised the bar with anything. Perhaps, it was ToT in 1994 ... or the entirety of DAK in 1998. But Disney is no longer shooting for the fences with what it builds, especially in O-Town. So ... it's more about playing on nostalgia and more character experiences and recycling the magic in parades and even EPCOT's season festivals, which increasingly have a tired feel. At the same time, they keep raising price points to absurd levels ($120 for a room at the All Stars in May?!?) all the while conditioning guests to expect and demand massive discounting, which they provide with general discounts (something that simply was NEVER done pre-2000) and things like free dining, merchandise gift cards, free nights etc. Where does it end?
Originally Posted By RobinsonCrusoeEsq For me, it ended in 2007. That's when my family and I bailed, after visiting several times each year for over 30 years. Haven't been back since. The real geniuses who created all this are gone, and no one has the talent to keep it up.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I was reading CMDad's thread about having one wish for WDW, thought of mine and then decided against posting it. However I'm relenting as it fits into this thread perfectly.>> Some of us do appreciate your perspective on things! <<I wish that 9/11 hadn't happened. That tragic event was more than the incredible loss of life in NYC - it had a knock-on effect that traumatized just about every single industry - and few were impacted more than tourism. I'll credit the WDW Co. management team at the time of doing a tremendous job of keeping the resort operational - they took some incredibly hard decisions upfront for the greater good. I was pleasantly surprised by the outcome as they acted quickly and effectively (both traits that are currently lacking in Central Florida).>> 9/11 certainly changed all of our lives and not for the better. How I long for the days when I could keep my shoes on at the airport ... or not see ugly barricades and bag checks at theme parks. And, most of all, not have something called the Patriot Act, but that's not what this topic is about (right now). <<However WDW Co. pushed for a quicker rebound than the industry could handle which led to mass discounting to fill those rooms. Instead of maintaining pricing (and therefore quality) they opted to discount through the floor - an example is the All Stars which were cheaper in the first years of this century than they were when they opened in '94 despite compounded CPI running at 20% over the same period. That discounting has continued for the past nine years. It has all been about keeping guest occupancy as high as possible irrespective of the outside indicators (such as the credit crisis). The problem is that consumers have long memories - they don't take kindly to rapid price increases for the same product. Many FMCGs will have the same problem come next year - P&G have been discounting their branded product for the past two years and selling it in larger (and cheaper) containers to shift the same volume. They won't be able to push through massive price hikes when the economy rebounds as consumers will balk - discounting should always be the last resort for any branded product. You run the risk of lasting degradation of the brand if you cheapen it.>> Disney doesn't get that. I don't know who's feeding Iger, Rasulo and Staggs their business model for FLA. I don't know why they can't see common sense. It's just dumb. They increase prices every year on resorts and admission and, usually, merchandise. And, at the same time, they discount it massively. So what is the true value? I remember the 70s, 80s, and 90s. You didn't get 'general' discounts for anyone. Sure, APers got some, later DVCers, always FLA residents (sometimes GA and AL too ... the local 'drive' markets) and things like AAA and Magic Kingdom Club. But they were very limited. And when you got one, it was like hitting a slot machine. You never waited to book, like now. Because you'd pay more if you did. Now? Only fools book early because the discounting gets better, the more desperate TDO gets when it looks at load levels. In a market that is maturing and now has many true high end hotels/resorts off-site, I don't see how Disney can continue its current pricing 'menu' ... how can it charge $120 for rooms at its motels when you can stay for $99-159 at places like the Gaylord Palms, JW Marriott, any of the new Hilton properties etc? Disney is counting on the ignorance of people who would rather pay more for the perceived 'magic' they get in a Disney 'resort' but is that something they truly believe is a never-ending supply? I wonder... and I love the Disney resorts, many have been upgraded nicely in the past 3-4 years. <<The second aspect has been the overall direction of the resort. There is little doubt that WDW is more susceptible to outside influences like the economy and global travel conditions than was previously thought. WDW was largely immune to the blip in '90 when the Gulf War commenced and oil went through the roof. The reason? WDW was a much smaller vacation destination at that time - two and a half theme parks (Disney/MGM had just opened in the previous May as a half-day experience), two water parks and far fewer hotel rooms (think - no Boardwalk, All Stars, Pop Century, DAK Lodge, Wilderness Lodge, Coronado Springs, Port Orleans/Dixie Landings and the first DVC resort didn't open until '91). The vast majority of the hotel expansion was in the period from the start of that recession to '95 - when construction was cheap and so was capital.>> It still hurt. I can remember Disney giving coupons to guests at QSR in 1990-91 offering 20% discounts for people to dine at a full serve resort location that night. But nothing like what's happened this century ... massive price spikes and massive discounting at the same time. Why not leave the motels at $50-100 a night? The mods at $65-130 a night? The deluxes at $150-300 a night? And cut the discounts? Orlando isn't NYC or London or Paris ... $100-200 for a basic motel room is absurd. and how is the empty site known as Flamingo Crossings coming along? <<So now WDW has more hotel rooms to fill to maintain occupancy and a decent RevPAR. Which means that they need to target as broad as possible a market - all of the US192 families are suddenly brought on to property - WDW Co. decided that they wanted to capture the entire market. The problem is then how do provide a "value" resort offering that is basic enough but still has a certain level of standard because it has the Disney name attached to it? Michael Eisner resisted going after the value segment for a long time - there were a host of hotel projects on the boards before All Star appeared. He was convinced that it was a market he didn't want to chase - he eventually relented but always disagreed with the model. Then families start to question why they should pay a premium for a moderate or a deluxe when they get the same basic service (think Disney's perceived high level of "hospitality", transportation etc.) so it drags down all of the room rates as some folks trade down. Now the logic is that some families will also trade up in good times (value to moderate and moderate to deluxe) but there hasn't been a long enough sustained period of growth in the US for that to effectively happen (despite cheap credit). So folks in the values stay in the values where the margins are slim but they are "captured" on-property, right?>> Well, I doubt the margins are slim at all IF they're getting rack rate. But when they do massive discounting, I'm sure it causes discomfort in the bottom line. But (and you address this next) how many rooms is enough? They've shuttered entire resorts for years this decade. And often closed buildings at resorts when occupancy was lower. Meantime, they've homogenized more of the resorts to make the differences less at different levels. From shuttering restaurants and marinas at moderates to removing individual resort merchandise to standardizing so much. A deluxe resort should not be run the same as a moderate or a value, but in many cases, they are very similar. <<The crux of the argument is finding a balance. Just when I thought WDW had reached the upper limit of its inventory ceiling it adds more DVC rooms and now a brand new hotel in the Art of Animation - another 2,000 rooms to fill nightly. Can the rest of WDW's infrastructure support those numbers? Think of the additional buses at peak times - 2,000 rooms in a basic hotel equals 4,500 people when full based on average occupancy of 2.5. To maintain their 85% target occupancy means an extra 3,825 folks on property each night for Art of Animation - where are those people going to come from? Airlines into MCO aren't adding flights at the moment - maybe it will change by 2012 but it is a big gamble - and a big capital expenditure gamble as Disney hotels aren't cheap to build.>> Because Disney would rather have more market share ... they'd rather massively discount to fill 85% of a resort's rooms vs. keeping prices higher and filling 60%. And do you really not expect more DVC at WDW? At the MK resorts? I'm sure they've got 5-10 year development plans for adding thousands of more units and I'm not talking just the Animation Motel either. <<And then you have the parks. The issue for the past decade has been poor master planning. 5 and 10 Year Plans that should be the bedrock for theme park development go out the window as WDW Co. has a capped capex budget each year and often they have to rob Peter to pay for Paul. And the parks are always the first to suffer. Each of the four parks has its own "mission statement" now - so only projects that meet that mission statement are approved now. So we end up with projects being approved that fit that statement rather than what is right. The story of Tower of Terror will never happen again - the numbers on that project didn't stack up - the cost was not justified by the expenditure - but Michael approved it as "it was the right thing to do - it is an incredible attraction". And it was done right. Now even if those attractions are approved they get cut back even during construction. Hence the bird-on-a-stick on Everest and the second AA being cut. Nobody wants to approve an E-Ticket for WDW any more - too risky and the question is what benefit do we get? DAK needed a marquee attraction like Everest - the other parks already have those. So instead we get small developments - the days of Splash Mountain are long gone. Eric Jacobson's original concept for the Fantasyland expansion was incredible. A great indoor attraction called Cartoon Corners featuring the Jolly Trolley as the ride vehicle, a fun Snow White mine car ride and a wonderful full-service Tiana's restaurant. What happened? Cut. Far too expensive and unnecessary as MK is the cash cow, right? Plus we don't need anything vaguely "thrilling" in MK as it is the kiddie park. The park needs capacity - it has been screaming out for it for years. This expansion adds very little in capacity but it does cater to the core mission statement - the Disney branded fun that is MK.>> Ah, so CC was the 'great' attraction I heard was cut early on. I just find it all terribly depressing because it's obvious that WDW exists largely to sell the Disney brand, timeshares and massive quantities of crappy merchandise and lousy food. Fans are supposed to be excited that after 18 years of no major additions to the MK (the supposed No. 1 theme park in the world since there's no accounting for either accounting or poor taste) that a cloned D-Ticket, some nicely themed meet-and-greets and a few new dining locations will be added over the next 2-3-4 years. EPCOT sits with many of its pavilions needing major work (the Seas tanks worry me) and TDO's answer is to add more dining locales to feed the DDP. Nothing of substance gets added. TPFKaTD-MGMS still has a giant hat in the middle ... and no real identity and ancient attractions (one could argue that 5-6 are ready to be retired and replaced). And DAK, while beautiful, is still vastly incomplete ... and the show quality of its signature E-Tix is pathetic. There's just no vision in TDO ... and none in Burbank. It's how many vinyl units can we move this quarter ... how many DVCs can we sell ... how many folks can we book with the DDP ... and (the biggie) how can we use technology to make even more? Questions of what should we be doing never get asked or answered at any significant levels.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I will resist the urge to retell the story of when I stayed at the CBR in fall 2000 and it was falling apart what a 'normal' guest told me when I loudly proclaimed that most guests weren't savvy enough to know they'd been hoodwinked by the marketing magic. I've only mentioned it about 543 times here ... << I honestly don't recall ever having read that.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's how many vinyl units can we move this quarter ... how many DVCs can we sell ... --- DVC continues to average 20K-22K shares per year over the last 5 years- has actually beenup the last 2 years - go figure with the economy - so those rooms being built have future visitors... the other non DVC hotel I question - uless they start closing older facilities
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>D23 has nothing to do with placating the 'original' fanbase ... and, really, what is the 'original' fanbase anyway. Are you in it? Me? Folks who were around when WDW opened? When DL did? D23 is Disney's very, very, very, very, very, very late realization that the entire fan community (that includes us and everyone here and everyone from the crazy MAGICal fanbois to the folks who have one zillion pins to those who only vacation at WDW etc) is a powerful voice in 'new media' and Disney would like to direct that voice into a more syrupy, corporate-approved, everything is magical world viewpoint. I'll say again that three years from now, I don't expect D23 to exist. They can't even move the very pricey glossy ad mags at WDW. A few weeks ago every store had copies that were from 2009 ...<<< I have the countdown to it's demise running.... And when you ask about "original" fanbase, I'd have to place us all at pre 1997. It seemed after WDW's 25, things began to grow stagnant and mismanaged. 2000 was a little bit of a reversal, but, as we've said 2001 and 9/11 really broke the world. If they really think they can execute and manage the "media" or the "rabble" through that, they really have another thing coming. Not everyone is going to plunk down 75 bucks, fly to WDW for a FLE Presentation, stay in the GF, and buy pins. Ideally...It would be a club. A real club. You pay a (low) entrance fee, and get your news letter. With REAL substance. Not all this pixie dust instead.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>What you need to understand is the original Jacobson concept was more involved and much more pricey (hundreds of millions have been chopped from the budget), so you're right ... it's all going to be style over substance and not even do much in the huge issue of capacity that has plagued MK for the last 15 years.<< The original FLE was extensive, included what we have now, and about 3 other rides. It would have been PERFECT.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>> It isn't. Butch up. Deal with it. And buy UNI/IOA tix. <<It's a good thing WDW still has a History and a nostalgia to it, for me, at least.... >> Disney always has ... but it also had one foot in the future with new and cutting edge experiences. There was always something new and exciting coming. But that just kinda stopped after DAK opened. Sure, if you look over the entire four parks (let's leave out the resort/DVC additions for now), new attractions were added over the past decade. Some pretty pricey like Mission Space and EE/Forbidden Mountain, some not so much in things like PhilharMagic and Nemo sea cabs ... but it seems like forever since Disney raised the bar with anything. Perhaps, it was ToT in 1994 ... or the entirety of DAK in 1998. But Disney is no longer shooting for the fences with what it builds, especially in O-Town. So ... it's more about playing on nostalgia and more character experiences and recycling the magic in parades and even EPCOT's season festivals, which increasingly have a tired feel.<<<< Either going with Lee in the coming weeks, or going in December. I'm determined to see something new in O-Town. ;-) There's a little part of me that can even argue that DAK is a big part of the problem. It's beautiful, sure, as it should be...but where's the attractions there, too? They opened without Asia. They didn't have a headliner until 2006. They still have a very large part of the park philosophy missing- the Fantasy. Maybe DAK was the first thing to be slashed for cost and functionality, like you said, and ToT was the last thing to be built the right way.
Originally Posted By Krankenstein <<If they really think they can execute and manage the "media" or the "rabble" through that, they really have another thing coming. Not everyone is going to plunk down 75 bucks, fly to WDW for a FLE Presentation, stay in the GF, and buy pins. >> Now, who are you talking about? I can't really add anything to this other than to say that I completely agree with everything here. I am really glad that I now have a Uni AP and I am enjoying more time at that amazing facility than the stagnate WDW complex.
Originally Posted By Krankenstein <<Just a hypothetical, Krank...Just a hypothetical.>> Can you imagine having a complete framed set of all the D23 pins? It. Would be so cool!
Originally Posted By leobloom >> It's my life's ambition. << I thought your life's ambition was to use every urinal and toilet on property. Aim high, EE!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Just read through tonight's input, and I see some very nice responses. I plan on responding, but I'm too sleepy right now. Expect posts when I come home from work tomorrow. Oh and I've got my Uni/IOA trip tentatively set for July 23-25! WOO!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>> I thought your life's ambition was to use every urinal and toilet on property. Aim high, EE!<<< I thought that was your job! I'm the D23 guy, remember?!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I doubt that Potter will have any true effect on WDW - my understanding is that Potter tends to skew a little older than most Disney properties >> Older? How so? Tweens and teens instead of six-year-olds? Not trying to be a smart arse here, Lee, (as opposed to when I actually try!) but Potter to me is the perfect 'family' type franchise ... as opposed to Club Penguin/Playhouse Disney, Princesses and Fairies and Marvel, which have very limited demos. <<- and ultimately it is one attraction in one park (that arguably hasn't been as successful as Uni wanted). I expect that some folks will want to visit IoA but is it really a game changer for Orlando?>> I believe (I don't talk absolutes until I experience things) that Potter will raise the bar for best attraction in O-Town ... and that's something UNI has done consistently over the past decade with things like Spidey, Men In Black and Mummy. Some more successful than others, no doubt. But Uni seems willing to try and raise the bar and Disney seems willing to put out a 4-5 minute D-Ticket Omnimover and themed meet and greets. Which company is really trying to give its guests the best experiences? <<I think IoA's attendance was something pitiful like 4.5m in 2009 (barely in the top ten most visited parks in the US if I recall). That number would have to change monumentally - like north of 20% increase (c.1m guests) to have any effect on WDW. I'm just not convinced that will happen. Epcot added something like 1m additional clicks thanks to the Millennium. Everest added nearly that number (but every park was up in '06). Is Potter a bigger draw that something like Everest? I guess we will find out.>> I don't think Potter has to dramatically increase to actually hurt Disney. And, I think I could even do a Power Point to prove it! ;-) All it takes is having a small percentage of guests who stay on property and never leave to take a day off their magical WDW vacations and spend it at UNI/IOA ... all it takes is them seeing that things can be better without pixie dust ... and that they won't turn into pumpkins if they set foot off WDW property ... that O-Town has many options for entertainment, dining and shopping that aren't Mouse-related. THAT can make a fundamental shift in how people visit WDW. You don't need WDW regulars cancelling their 10 nights at OKW to hurt. All you need is guests taking a single day off-property to hit revenue streams in everything from food and beverage to merchandise. THAT has to be the issue. Because if they like that one day ... THEN it can turn into multiple days ... and THEN it can change future vacation plans. WDW has spent the past two decades doing everything possible to keep guests prisoners on property and Potter is the best chance of breaking the pixie dust habit. <<The issue is that IoA could rebound to its initial attendance numbers - the park managed 6m in its first full year of ops and so the last year on record it was down 25% on that number - a huge decline when all of the Disney parks are up over the same period. So Potter probably won't have an impact. However that doesn't give a free pass to WDW management to avoid additional development on their own parks.>> They don't need a free pass. They've already been given one. It started in Eisner's later years and continued strongly with Iger. Staggs is no different than Rasulo, he just isn't as slimy. If Burbank wanted WDW to have fresh major attractions, then it would. Burbank is busy trying to pretend it isn't looking to dump ABC, kicking the Lost crew out of their offices on the lot (seriously ... they 'need' the space for one of their new fall shows) and focusing on platforms and technology and not story and quality. <<I don't get the Potter phenomenon - but it does make me sad to think back to how close we were as a company to securing the rights. It couldn't have been closer. The author wanted us to have it but Jay refused to pay the royalties in the end - just too high. The stuff that was developed was breath-taking - it would have blown folks away.>> I never got Potter at first, but anyone who says it wouldn't fit Disney is very mistaken. Potter would fit much better than Marvel. Potter hits more demos than the teen fanbois that Marvel does. I've never seen one Potter film in a theater, but Saturday night I sat and watched HP and the Goblet of Fire (fourth film, by Mike Newell who has put out the very underperforming Prince of Persia for the Mouse) for the first time. On ABC Family of all places. And I really enjoyed it. I've now seen every Potter film, but the last ... and each one I see I enjoy more than the prior. Hell, the Potter films are better than any of the crap George Lucas has foisted upon fans in the past decade ... I've heard many things about how/why things went bad between JK and The Mouse, but the bottom line in all of them was Disney felt JK needed Mickey more than Mickey needed JK and her kid wizard. I think time will show Mickey was wrong. But, hey, Mickey owns Spidey now ... and Hulk ... and the Fantastic Four ... and a whole lot of characters that will never be seen in an American Disney park except on shelves. Although you can ride with all those characters at IOA too!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This week I got in a conversation with someone on the "product" side of merchandise about the "one disney" initiative (i.e all the Disney Parks crap)and how they are trying to make both coasts the "same". I agree with it to a point that the background policies/rules etc should be the same but trying to blend both coasts into one mold wont work. Even blending all 4 WDW parks into a single mold won't work.>> They don't get this. They absolutely do NOT get this. That's why they steadfastly keep putting out Disney Parks branded merchandise (like that crappy cheap windbreaker they were hawking as an add on if you spent a certain amount -- maybe $50 -- can't recall). No one wants to advertise Disney Parks. People visit the MK ... or EPCOT ... or DAK or DL ... they stay at CS ... or POP ... or the Poly. Of course, it's cheaper to put the same crap in every park, resort, store from coast to coast. It's what Walmart does (although even they change up some stuff for local tastes). But how much potential $$$ are you not getting by doing this? There's a limited market for Mickey tees, Tink hoodies, mouse ears, plush and vinylmation. And saturating WDW with it won't increase the sales because people who don't like that crap won't buy it. No matter how many places you stick it. <<If the SAME stuff is available everywhere you will only get my money ONCE- Whereas if you have DIFFERENT stuff everywhere you may get my money many different times.>> Please, Em. That makes way too much sense. With statements like that you could easily be a merchandising exec! Oh wait, reality has no place in TDO's merchandising business model, so ... nevermind. <<When you don't have enough product line to stock a specific store so that the Tower of Terror Gift Shop is 1/3 tower 1/3 Nightmare and 1/3 generic crap. The same generic crap that is on Sunset, and Hollywood Blvd, and Backlands, And MK and Epcot etc. And their answer to less barcodes? Too much stuff was going to outlets. Well DUH. If you put all your money on banking that guests want product A and you order 5,000 units to fill all stores and guests HATE Product A you then have 4,500 units to discount. If you have products A,B,C,D,E each with 1,000 units. Product A may tank but B,C,D sold out and E did pretty good you only have minimum product to outlet... >> What did WDW do pre-1994 (when their first outlet store opened)? ... Well, back then they sold a much wider array of merchandise to begin with. But whenever I'm at the outlets (let's not even talk about the fun of Character Connection/Prop Control), I never cease to be amazed at how much $&*# they have. And how steadfast they can be about refusing to discount past a certain point, even when stuff sits for months (no one wants Incredibles Christmas ornaments, Narnia books or CBR pins ...) But I digressed (need to post earlier when I still have what remain of my faculties). Disney makes way too much of way too many pieces of crap and then wonders why it sits at outlets. No one wants those Summer 2008 Mexican Cruise pin sets ... let CMs buy them for $5 a pop. Now ... where was I? Does it matter? Disney merchandise died about 15 years ago when the business model (thanks consultants) changed and every locale had to reach certain numbers. Profit didn't matter, even. It had to be a certain level of profit. And the concept of retail as part of the show died. Princess costumes in Liberty Square? Sure. Jack Skellington in Tomorrowland? You betcha. The Emporium becomes World of Disney MK? BEST IDEA EVER! <<WDW esp has regulated back to the "give people what they are asking for and not what they NEED" Sadly FLE fits dead into this. I want WDW to give me something I can't live without but I don't know WHAT yet. >> I think what you really want is pins celebrating coloring with Aurora! <<Just like I hate the fact that several pieces of the "Disney Look" took a step towards casual wear shows that Disney is slowly abandoning its pedestal and jointing the ranks of "amusement parks">> I doubt the Disney Look will even be around at the end of this decade. Most CMs are slovenly at best. Costuming has been dumbed down (thanks consultants who broke what had worked ... I love hearing CMs in costume talking about their sexual exploits while in line at Wendy's!) ... and the term 'suits' needs to be retired because managers now dress in mall wear at best with their lanyards, keys, Blackberrys hanging when they are on stage. Show is great to talk about in coffee table books and press releases ... but show me the bottom line is all that matters.
