Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "THAT can make a fundamental shift in how people visit WDW. You don't need WDW regulars cancelling their 10 nights at OKW to hurt. All you need is guests taking a single day off-property to hit revenue streams in everything from food and beverage to merchandise." <<I agree Spirit-- here is a perfect example. On our trip this year- the day we travel to Vero from OKW - instead of spending time @ EPCOT or MK-- we ( party of 13) are spending the day @ Uni specifically to see Potter. Now we eat 1-2 sit down meals each day so I will see if we can get into one at Uni ( will also do Margaritaville for the other) - That's 13 1 day park tickets 10 adult 3 child $997 ( God it's even hard to type that) 26 meals $ 15-$20 each $500 You know there will be some Potter souveneirs $200 by the end of the day $1750 or so the Mouse doesn't get that he always has. Now we did not cancel our trip - nor our Vero add on -- but we didn't add an extra day either - the Uni day replaces a Disney day ( and we are actually thinking about 2 as the value ticket wise is better) -- We've gone before but not lately - however Potter was enough to draw us there... if everyfamily does this- it is absolutely a hit on WDW $>> Great example, VBDAD. And I don't believe it has to be 'every' family ... hell, I don't even think it has to be 'most' ... just a significant number and I do see that happening. There's only so much marketing magic Disney can pull out of its very tired Sorcerer's hat when its obvious that IOA has real substance ... REAL magic in its newest addition. The obvious question to anyone visiting WDW who has been there before would be why wouldn't you spend at least a day at IOA? They're building the kind of attractions Disney USED to be known for. Why could Disney build PoC in 1967, Mansion in 1969, any of the major EC attractions in 1982, ToT in 1994 etc ... but in 2010 the best hope is a 5-minute cloned D-Ticket (at best) Omnimover dark ride? UNI is trying. Disney is trying to put one over on its guests/fans.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<does anyone know of a 2-3 day ticket - non expiring ? Do they have that option ?>> <<Here is a nice little website with ticket info: <a href="http://www.universalorlando.co...s_2.aspx>>" target="_blank">http://www.universalorlando.co...>></a> I'll be getting an AP again when I make it back, but like Disney, UNI has put expirations on its tickets. was just looking at an AAA brochure with ticket prices etc a 2-day non-FLA resident ticket is $107.95 (again AAA prices), but you have a two-week window to use the days. And if you want to hop it jumps up to $131.95. ...
Originally Posted By Krankenstein <<I'll be getting an AP again when I make it back, but like Disney, UNI has put expirations on its tickets. was just looking at an AAA brochure with ticket prices etc a 2-day non-FLA resident ticket is $107.95 (again AAA prices), but you have a two-week window to use the days. And if you want to hop it jumps up to $131.95. ...>> Go for the Premiere AP like me, Spirit. It costs more, but the extras are worth it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This expansion adds very little in capacity but it does cater to the core mission statement - the Disney branded fun that is MK.>> <<Leemac, I enjoy your posts, as they're always fairly informative, but I can't agree with this. The Disney style of fun is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just those under the age of 10 and of the female persuasion.>> That's not Lee's opinion. That's TDO/Burbank's mission statement for what the MK now is ... sad isn't it? What would Walt say? Or Dick Nunis? Or Judson? Or anyone who actually had/has a clue about what WDW was supposed to be about ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>>I'm going to be eating at Mythos for the first time on this upcoming trip...and I'm beyond excited.<<< <<Fair warning.... After eating at Mythos and getting a fabulous meal at a reasonable price...you will never look at Disney dining the same way again. It simply has no equal at WDW. Maybe Blue Lagoon at DL, but that's it.>> You can get equal or better at WDW, but not for price points in the same stratosphere. Oh and Blue Bayou (Blue Lagoon is at DLP!) at DL is much pricier than Mythos, although very good.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Do you need reservations to eat at Mythos?>> I've never needed them and never waited more than 30 minutes without, BUT that was before Potter. I'd make one on the morning I visit at this point to be on the safe side.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have to agree with this. I ate at Mythos and had a FABULOUS filet. Went to Kona the next day and had a steak I loved previously, but this time it didn't hold a candle to the one at Mythos. >> Yes. But you have to understand that Mythos is run to make a profit by giving guests the best quality UNI can at price points that deliver a fair (but not outrageous) return. What happens with Disney is something like this: You find a steak you like. It's good quality. Say 10-12 ounces. First, Disney cuts the size to eight. And raises the price. Then, it drops off a side item or replaces it with a cheaper one. And raises the price. Then it starts using a lower cut of beef. And it raises the price. Then, it cuts the size of the beef again. Pretty soon, you're eating 6 oz of Sizzler quality beef with mashed taters and paying well over $30 to do so. That's the magic of TWDC!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Am I talking to myself again? (I can fly, I can fly, I can fly!!!!!!! I love pixie dust!!!!!!! WHEEEEEEE!!!)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<Do you need reservations to eat at Mythos?>> I've never needed them and never waited more than 30 minutes without, BUT that was before Potter. I'd make one on the morning I visit at this point to be on the safe side. ------- do they have a guest services set up to do that ? Would like to eat there - and hoping the Potter crowd will all wait for the 3 Broomsticks ... too bad they don't have non -expiring tickets - think they may be missing out - I would buy more than 1 day if they had the option. We have gone to IOA before ( as well as the original Uni ) -- - to be quite honest I found IOA to be a high quality Six Flags at the time- and my days of hairraising rides are in the rear view mirror - and that is what they did best. I liked the original Uni - but some of my favorite rides there are gone. I am hoping Potter will be the over the top experience people seem to think it will be- totally immersive. We just enjoy the whole WDW experience much more as a family... and remember we usually stay 6-7 days at WDW- then head on to Vero....if not for Vero would likely spend more time at Uni and SW
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>Am I talking to myself again? (I can fly, I can fly, I can fly!!!!!!! I love pixie dust!!!!!!! WHEEEEEEE!!!)<< Someone had too much caffeine again. ;-)
Originally Posted By leemac <<"THAT can make a fundamental shift in how people visit WDW. You don't need WDW regulars cancelling their 10 nights at OKW to hurt. All you need is guests taking a single day off-property to hit revenue streams in everything from food and beverage to merchandise.">> Don't agree with that at all - the entire pricing of WDW these days means that "all-inclusive" is king. If you are losing folks for a day to another park then you still potentially have breakfast and/or dinner and their nightly rate. They may have already got MYW Passes which add mere dollars on to the cost once you get above 7 days and they may have DDP too (if I recall you have to have DDP for every night of your vacation unless that has changed - I'm not familiar with these operational programs) - so it will be the guests' loss if they skip out to another park. Loss in merchandise sales? There is strong evidence to suggest that folks go into a vacation with a fixed spend on gifts/souvies - that wouldn't change if folks were spending less on-property (unless they were specifically earmarking spend for HP - let's hope the quality of the merch is better than the stuff IoA had at its opening). It would be a different story if they are losing long weekend vacationers to Uni but that is unlikely I would have thought. One day out of a mult-day vacation will hardly effect WDW Co. It will be simply a flesh wound. You need the multi-day vacationers to spend more than a fleeting day of their vacation off-site to cause a mindshift in the mentality of management. The key to remember is that WDW Co. rewards folks for longer length-of-stay visits these days and any shift in that behavior will have minimal effect on the bottom line.
Originally Posted By leemac <<This expansion adds very little in capacity but it does cater to the core mission statement - the Disney branded fun that is MK.>> <<Leemac, I enjoy your posts, as they're always fairly informative, but I can't agree with this. The Disney style of fun is supposed to be fun for everyone, not just those under the age of 10 and of the female persuasion.>> Only fairly? )) Disney means something very different under Iger's vision of the brand - it isn't the Disney Difference that Michael used to talk about (ie. guest service and quality) - it is about safety - when a family has a choice of products to spend their cash on Iger hopes they choose a Disney brand as they know it is "safe" for their kids. In my view the Disney brand is skewing younger and younger by the year at the moment - it seems there is little to attract anyone over the age of puberty who has an adult IQ. So when I say that MK's Fantasyland expansion meets the mission statement of the park - I mean that it is full of Disney-branded franchises (think Fairies and Princesses) that are targeted to children.
Originally Posted By dshyates I can tell you that Potter merchendise is indeed a big focus of what the people going there are looking for. People are spending huge on the stuff. And not only is losing day guests, they are losing hotel nights also. A lot of folks that are coming to see Potter are cutting their Disney stays short and staying on-site for a night or 2 at one of the 3 on-site Universal resorts. The all-day unlimited Express Pass is a huge perk that is drawing folks to the Universal hotels. And I think that is bad for Disney in the long run. When people see that Universal Resort Orlando has nice resorts, a fun Entertainment District (that actually has Dance Clubs), and parks that are fun for people over the age of 8. Disney is gonna feel the impact. Maybe not a big difference at first, but in the long term Disney is going to feel it. With Disney catering only to 8 year olds and Uni stepping up their game, Disney is gonna lose guests. And I believe that is the entire point of the OP.
Originally Posted By -em >>With Disney catering only to 8 year olds and Uni stepping up their game, Disney is gonna lose guests. And I believe that is the entire point of the OP<< Agreed. You take down a mountain not by trying to blow it up but chipping away from its base
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<do they have a guest services set up to do that ? Would like to eat there - and hoping the Potter crowd will all wait for the 3 Broomsticks ...>> Well, from what I understand 3 Broomsticks isn't table service. <<We have gone to IOA before ( as well as the original Uni ) -- - to be quite honest I found IOA to be a high quality Six Flags at the time- and my days of hairraising rides are in the rear view mirror - and that is what they did best. I liked the original Uni - but some of my favorite rides there are gone.>> Whoa, I've never been anywhere near a Six Flags with that kind of theming. Other than the dumb giant Marvel cut outs, IoA is themed as well as every WDW park other than maybe DAK. And what were your favorites at USO? Other than Kong(which was replaced by a superior attraction) and BTTF most of their classics are there. <<I am hoping Potter will be the over the top experience people seem to think it will be- totally immersive.>> From all the reports it is!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>One day out of a mult-day vacation will hardly effect WDW Co. It will be simply a flesh wound. You need the multi-day vacationers to spend more than a fleeting day of their vacation off-site to cause a mindshift in the mentality of management.<<<< Hopefully it's a wound big enough to get them worried and to get them building something new. Stranger things have happened.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy I think it's only fair to ask the same question of Universal Orlando. How long can Universal Orlando continue on its current path? The company had to renegotiate nearly $1B in debt last fall on terms that aren't very favorable. The company has hardly any cash flow at all. They don't even report operating profits to the public, only EBITDA -- which is a businessman's way of saying that a company isn't profitable without actually saying that. Will there be a bump in attendance from Harry Potter? Definitely. Will it be enough to counter the long-term attendance declines that have occurred at Universal throughout the past decade? Not likely. How much longer will GE and Blackstone be happy to finance this money loser?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^UO isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And if it did, I'd rather go to UO fighting for it's life rather than go to the bloated, lazy giant that is WDW as it trudges along into mediocrity.
Originally Posted By dshyates Sport, that is a fair question. But given the excitement I have been seeing over this HP Expansion, I believe Universal's future is looking better. I wouldn't be surprised if IOA and US cracked into the top 5. Which has been dominated by only Disney. Lee was talking about Uni's 2009 numbers, and one thing to keep in mind is that many people held off on coming during 2009 waiting for Potter. I know for a fact that this summer and into the fall are going to be crazy crowded.
