Originally Posted By vbdad55 I don't see any reason why a Uni/SW/Busch conglomerate couldn't take over the number 1 Orlando spot from WDW. -------- so when does construction start on about another 50,000 hotel rooms ? I appreciate the HP effort and congratulate them for it-- but let's not get carried away -- at least in the next decade or so
Originally Posted By MPierce I think Lee Mac has given us a pretty good glimpse into Disney's thinking when it comes to Harry Potter or for that matter anything Uni, SW. BG or Legoland can throw at them. I have long been of the opinion that Disney has the mindset of an invinceable Giant. They feel that they can do no wrong. They believe they are putting out the best product in the industry. They believe the product they are offering will be gobbled up by the consumer as it always has been in the past. I guarantee you that their research department has enough graphs, and figures to show that HP will have no more of an impact than IOA had on WDW. There are no Disney executives losing sleep over the WWWoHP. Only time will tell if their confidence in their product pays off. Only the public can decide that.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>a flesh wound left untreated - could lead to bleeding to death... therehas to be a better answer coming than FL expansion. Unless Leemac is right ( and he very well could be) - and they are going to gear everything towards 10 and under..then they are eventually doomed<< Disney isn't stupid...They'll correct the problem, and easily. They'll want the money.
Originally Posted By Daannzzz ""So what do you think comes after or replaces theme parks."" I think he is thinking that we will all just plug into our machines and they will give us our trips to where ever, when ever and how ever. You will feel like you are there so who would need the real thing.Kind of like the movie "Brainstorm" Or that media, gaming and home systems will take care of the theme park needs.
Originally Posted By Daannzzz ""I have long been of the opinion that Disney has the mindset of an invinceable Giant. They feel that they can do no wrong. They believe they are putting out the best product in the industry. They believe the product they are offering will be gobbled up by the consumer as it always has been in the past."" I don't think they think they are putting out the best product they can. I think they know they are putting out a product that will just barely cut it and people are still gobbling it up and they know that.
Originally Posted By MousDad >>so when does construction start on about another 50,000 hotel rooms ? I appreciate the HP effort and congratulate them for it-- but let's not get carried away -- at least in the next decade or so<< They don't need to build 50,000 motel rooms to make the Mouse hurt. In fact, they don't even need to take over Disney's market share. All they need to do is make Disney's quarterly profit margin go down. This will be done by Potter in the coming months no doubt about it, but it can also be done long term by attacking the MYW and thereby reducing guest per-day spending, which is all they care about in Burbank.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>><<They'll correct the problem>> Doubt it.<<<< If they are loosing enough money, they will have to do something. Have to keep those earnings going up. If they see that FLE doesn't do it (It won't...How can they even market it?) they'll try something else...hopefully in a different demographic.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<do they have a guest services set up to do that ? Would like to eat there - and hoping the Potter crowd will all wait for the 3 Broomsticks ...>> Yes. You can make them at the park or even call Mythos directly. Confisco Grill, the park's other full-serve location, is also quite good. But it isn't on par with Mythos. <<too bad they don't have non -expiring tickets - think they may be missing out - I would buy more than 1 day if they had the option.>> Are you sure they don't? I have no clue as I've either gone with an AP or on comps, so I've never bought a multi-day pass. I'd call to see what your options are. <<We have gone to IOA before ( as well as the original Uni ) -- - to be quite honest I found IOA to be a high quality Six Flags at the time- and my days of hairraising rides are in the rear view mirror - and that is what they did best. I liked the original Uni - but some of my favorite rides there are gone.>> I have never gone to a Six Flags, but I would never put IOA in that category. Ops haven't been great. But the quality and detail of the park is great, except for the Marvel area, which I give them a pass on since Spidey and Hulk are great rides. <<I am hoping Potter will be the over the top experience people seem to think it will be- totally immersive.>> Some good friends rode multiple times yesterday morning and they were extremely impressed ... and one is not the type to gush about anything and the other is a Disney-loving fanboi through and through. They both agreed it's the best attraction they've been on. <<We just enjoy the whole WDW experience much more as a family... and remember we usually stay 6-7 days at WDW- then head on to Vero....if not for Vero would likely spend more time at Uni and SW>> Yep. We know you are hooked on the pixie dust and tiaras. But I have stayed on-site at Uni and their hotels are very nice. ... Regardless, there's nothing wrong with staying a week at OKW but also leaving to go to UNI/IOA/SW and dine and shop away from The Mouse. The more you do so, the easier it becomes.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<One day out of a mult-day vacation will hardly effect WDW Co. It will be simply a flesh wound. You need the multi-day vacationers to spend more than a fleeting day of their vacation off-site to cause a mindshift in the mentality of management. The key to remember is that WDW Co. rewards folks for longer length-of-stay visits these days and any shift in that behavior will have minimal effect on the bottom line.>> I don't know about that, Lee. Disney has worked to make folks prisoner of The Mouse for the past decade ... from MYW tix to DME to DDP ... but not everyone buys tickets for every day of their stay, many rent cars (or will) and even the dining plan is losing its glow as folks realize it isn't the deal Disney PR makes it seem. Now, while I agree that it will take a lot of bottom-line issues and folks leaving before TDO reacts in a big way, I also think it will be almost like a ripple type effect. It will start small. Many of the folks who would never leave WDW will ... and that's when they see there's a whole world out there. One in which you can buy a steak for the price of a $hitty Mickey burger. Just having the possibility of Potter open this week has resulted in IOA having a good 10K more vistitors in the park daily. That's with no set opening at all. That bodes well for them. But again, I'm sure Disney arrogantly doesn't give a damn. That 'tude may in fact not hurt the bottom line ... or bonuses to Meg's exec team, but it damages the brand as folks constantly get mediocrity. Hell, I know about a lot of 'plans' at WDW ... the stuff that winds up in coffee table books ... but I can't say I know of any that would truly try and raise the bar. Without spilling company secrets, can you say you know of any actual attraction plans (even blue sky) for WDW (not other Disney parks) that attempt to do so?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney means something very different under Iger's vision of the brand - it isn't the Disney Difference that Michael used to talk about (ie. guest service and quality) - it is about safety - when a family has a choice of products to spend their cash on Iger hopes they choose a Disney brand as they know it is "safe" for their kids. In my view the Disney brand is skewing younger and younger by the year at the moment - it seems there is little to attract anyone over the age of puberty who has an adult IQ. So when I say that MK's Fantasyland expansion meets the mission statement of the park - I mean that it is full of Disney-branded franchises (think Fairies and Princesses) that are targeted to children.>> I think it goes beyond MK (although that is the worst offender, no doubt). Disney seems to only care about appealing to young girls (although Marvel they seem to feel will bring in a male demo), their parents and grandparents and gay males who are exceptionally fey. ... Oh, and the truly mentally ill who truly believe there is something magical they can only find at WDW. The question really is: are they as clueless as they appear? Or just short term greedy folks who will be retired when the damage comes home to roost?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't see any reason why a Uni/SW/Busch conglomerate couldn't take over the number 1 Orlando spot from WDW.>> I do. Their management is pretty much as incompetent (or worse) than Disney's ... and Blackstone isn't combining its SW parks with UNI, although one would think that some sort of ticket and package deals will happen at some point. Still, while those parks as a united front could do more damage to Disney, it's still the 800-pound gorilla and it has 30,000 acres and 30,000 resort rooms and timeshares and marketing magicians that cast spells on folks that would make Dumbledore proud. <<Duplicate a Potteresque effort at US, strenghthen the existing relationships with local resorts, plus and market the crap out of the already existing ticket structure to compete with MYW, throw in a little HSR transportation perk - boom, it's Mouse for lunch.>> Like I said, I expect that to some degree, but pixie dust is a strong thing to overcome. There are folks who would rather ride Space Mountain for the 654th time rather than go watch the Atlantis launch. That's the reality. <<I'm sick of all the apologists who, while they may begrudingly admit that Uni has absolutely ass-whooped wdw into submission with Potter, continue the same song and dance routine. i.e., that it's really nothing to worry about because Disney is just has too much historical blahblahblah, their marketing is geared towards a different blahblahblah, their merchandising blahblah and stranglehold on blahblahblah.>> I don't see that here ... you must be speaking of a scary MAGICal realm! <<The only thing that will win in the long run is substance - period. Frankly, I'd be more scared of the noobs than the fanbois. They're the ones who shell out for a vacation to the World only to leave vowing they'll never go back. (I've talked to plenty of them.)>> Yep. Those are folks Disney thinks it has by the balls, but the reality is many of them come, are not impressed and don't return ... but TDO is arrogant enough to not care.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << but it can also be done long term by attacking the MYW and thereby reducing guest per-day spending >> The problem with your logic is that Universal has a serious cash flow problem. If they start a price war, it's game over for them, too. Why do you think UO is always happy to match the Disney price increases every time they happen? UO is in big need of cash. They aren't on any path towards paying off their debt and, in fact, are only increasing debt every quarter. It's not a sustainable business model.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't know why anyone hasn't pointed out the bigger issue yet: theme parks as a whole are a dying, antiquated concept. I think they'll mostly disappear in their current form (at least in North America) within the next few decades.>> Sure. Theme parks are dying. Network TV is too. Oh, and movies too. All of our entertainment will come from a giant iPad/Phone ... sorry, I find your premise (and my extention of it) to be patently absurd and the stuff tech geeks (who can't live 10 minutes without their latest Apple toy) love to throw out. Radio should be dead by now. Newspapers and magazines too. Books as well. Everything will be online. Let us light a candle at the altar of Jobs. Um ... no. Don't think so. (But I have heard Disney has talked to WalMart about buying the land EPCOT sits on and bulldozing it for giant distribution center!)
Originally Posted By dshyates I personally think that ANYONE that is even a little bit put off by Disney that books a 4 night stay at one of Universal's resorts, does 3 days at URO and throws in a day at Sea World will be TOAST for Disney's bottomline. This is where the Orlando Flex Ticket is gonna KILL Disney. All they need now is the transportation system.
Originally Posted By dshyates And anyone that thinks that won't happen, I did it for my family in 2007 and we haven't been back. Disney has truely lost our business. After our 2006 trip I felt "dirty" from being so ....by the mouse.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Without spilling company secrets, can you say you know of any actual attraction plans (even blue sky) for WDW (not other Disney parks) that attempt to do so?<<< Do you think the plans we got wind of at lunch the other day might do anything big? If done right, they could have it built up quite nicely.
Originally Posted By dshyates I was not privey to the Lunch, but do the proposed plans make you say "Wheee!!!!"?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I was quite happy with them... If a certain Self that is His Own would post, I could say more. Spirit, too, I assume. ;-)
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "I don't know why anyone hasn't pointed out the bigger issue yet: theme parks as a whole are a dying, antiquated concept. I think they'll mostly disappear in their current form (at least in North America) within the next few decades." WHAT THE ...........?!?! Seriously mate, what the hell?!?!?!
