Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 ">>>Ummm yea...no. Both Busch Gardens are BEAUTIFUL theme parks with world class attractions. Anyone who thinks differently is blind.<<< I was there in 2005, 2006, and 2008, and Tampa's was just sad. Dirty, cheap looking, just bad. And I was expecting it to be great, seeing that people, like yourself, were raving about it. Sorry...It sucks." LOL!!!!!!!!! Sorry for laughing but can you see the illogic in that post?
Originally Posted By leemac <<so when does construction start on about another 50,000 hotel rooms ? I appreciate the HP effort and congratulate them for it-- but let's not get carried away -- at least in the next decade or so>> WDW Co. operates on a business model that is almost entirely outside the berm these days. It operates theme parks solely to get people on-site. Theme parks work on very high costs bases and therefore are a very weak use of your capital. WDW Co. operates theme parks to sell your accommodation, F&B, merch and a host of other activities like mini-golf, boat hire etc. Think of the economics - a basic 7-day MYW ticket equates to about $34 per day - it is easy to sell high-margin F&B to each guest that equals that amount - far more profitable than the ticket media. Universal have three hotels - and there are all Loews O&O - and their total inventory is 2,400 rooms including deluxe rooms and suites. The new Art of Animation Resort - just one resort - will have 2,000 rooms. Universal can't and never will be able to compete on the inventory front and I bet they wish they could - those margins are far more tasty than operating two theme parks and being a landlord at CityWalk. <<Just having the possibility of Potter open this week has resulted in IOA having a good 10K more vistitors in the park daily. >> If that figure is true then good luck to them - it doesn't tell us the breakdown of the revenue though - a huge proportion could be locals on those ridiculously cheap APs (do they still do that Buy 1 Day and Get the Year For Free promotion every year?) - in which case they are only getting F&B and merch. If they are folks on WDW property then the question is what is the daily rate of their passes etc. As I said before - Disney still gets revenue from them even if they are visiting Universal. If IoA is attracting that level of additional guests (and 10k per day is an extra 3.65m guests annually) then I hope their existing infrastructure and the HP world can cope with that - when I've talked to industry colleagues they believe strongly that beyond the Kuka attraction they undercooked the occupancy (I think they were talking stores/F&B etc.). The issue is that there hasn't been an additional attraction/land that has been a game-changer in Orlando history - never. Maybe HP is that silver bullet but I remain skeptical. I'm sure there will be a big initial drive up in attendance numbers - like we saw for ToT at D/MGM and Everest at DAK - but I'm sure they will settle down eventually. And all that capex has to be paid for - as Sport Goofy so aptly explained - Uni Parks & Resorts doesn't have a healthy balance sheet - they've bet big on Potter and the additions to the main park like that Rip It Coaster - that is effectively their capex done for the next decade unless capital markets start to creak open again. It is a huge gamble.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I have long been of the opinion that Disney has the mindset of an invinceable Giant. They feel that they can do no wrong. They believe they are putting out the best product in the industry. They believe the product they are offering will be gobbled up by the consumer as it always has been in the past. I guarantee you that their research department has enough graphs, and figures to show that HP will have no more of an impact than IOA had on WDW.>> I'd agree with Daannzzz here - I don't think WDW Co. thinks it is putting out the best product in the industry - management believe they are putting out what guests want - they believe they are at least meeting the expectations of most guests.
Originally Posted By leemac <<<<I am hoping Potter will be the over the top experience people seem to think it will be- totally immersive.>> Some good friends rode multiple times yesterday morning and they were extremely impressed ... and one is not the type to gush about anything and the other is a Disney-loving fanboi through and through. They both agreed it's the best attraction they've been on.>> Granted - but it is still one 3-minute (?) experience in a vacation - just one. Everyone talks of Spidey being the best attraction ever developed (I don't agree) but it didn't have anything other than a negligible impact on WDW - you can see the attendance numbers at IoA - the attraction was hugely expensive and meant to be one of the marquee rides at that park but it didn't draw people in. Will HP be able to do what the best attraction in the industry couldn't?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Without spilling company secrets, can you say you know of any actual attraction plans (even blue sky) for WDW (not other Disney parks) that attempt to do so?>> I'm not privy to WDW at all - I genuinely don't know what is on the boards these days (not that I could share anyhow!). All you can do is look at the quality of the product in the four parks over the last decade and decide whether it in comparable to the quality in previous decades.
Originally Posted By dshyates The people coming to see Potter are an interesting demo. At this point there are a lot of APs, but there is a huge group that weren't previously part of the theme park going demo. There is a huge number of Potter fanatics. They have never been to either URO or WDW and have really no interest in going to WDW. They are coming strictly for Potter. I know that WDW is expecting to ride Potter's robe-tails into higher numbers, but from what I am hearing from those coming from across the pond, TDO may be a bit shocked that they are going to see a very small number of those coming. And yes, this is a HUGE gamble for Uni. But it is one that I am positive is going to pay off. It is a shame that Disney lost their bid for the Potter franchise. But from what I am hearing they only pitched one ride that was similar to Buzz except with wands, without ANY focus of actually creating the world of Potter. And I can tell you that the Hogsmeade village is spectacular. Thierry Coup and the Universal Creative team has done a fantastic job at creating a truely immersive environment. Oh, and didn't Thierry Coup used to be at WDI?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Granted - but it is still one 3-minute (?) experience in a vacation - just one. Everyone talks of Spidey being the best attraction ever developed (I don't agree) but it didn't have anything other than a negligible impact on WDW - you can see the attendance numbers at IoA - the attraction was hugely expensive and meant to be one of the marquee rides at that park but it didn't draw people in. Will HP be able to do what the best attraction in the industry couldn't?>> Again, saying this is one ride an nothing else is such a gross oversimplification. The land is a complete experience. And comparing Spider-man too it is off the mark. As much as I love the character, and as popular as he is, he's no where near Potter. Potter is a pop-culture icon and phenomena the likes of which hasn't been seen since Star Wars. Almost everyone I know likes or loves Potter, where as I could only say that about a dozen of my friends when it pertains to Spidey.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 <<In a market that is maturing and now has many true high end hotels/resorts off-site, I don't see how Disney can continue its current pricing 'menu' ... how can it charge $120 for rooms at its motels when you can stay for $99-159 at places like the Gaylord Palms, JW Marriott, any of the new Hilton properties etc?>> We recently stayed at the new Hilton Convention Center it was one of the nicest hotels we have stayed in Orlando and oh yeah it was only $70 a night thru priceline. Beautiful rooms with plush beds and a big lcd tv. Resort style pool with fountains, big waterslide and also a nice lazy river. Can't wait to try the Hilton Bonnet Creek next.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Oh, and didn't Thierry Coup used to be at WDI?>> Yup - on Walt Disney Studios Park - particularly the Backlot if I recall. None of the creative team on that park survived the cull except for Tom Morris. Everyone I can think of from Thierry to Paul LaFrance to Paul Osterhout were canned off the back of that project. <<The people coming to see Potter are an interesting demo. At this point there are a lot of APs, but there is a huge group that weren't previously part of the theme park going demo. There is a huge number of Potter fanatics. They have never been to either URO or WDW and have really no interest in going to WDW. They are coming strictly for Potter. I know that WDW is expecting to ride Potter's robe-tails into higher numbers, but from what I am hearing from those coming from across the pond, TDO may be a bit shocked that they are going to see a very small number of those coming.>> No disrespect dshyates but I'm skeptical at best that this is truly the case. There has never been an attraction that has brought significant non-theme park crowds to a theme park. It didn't work with Star Tours, Captain EO, IJA or any other attraction based on a popular franchise past or present. Maybe it will be the case with Potter but I can't see folks dumping thousands of dollars on a family vacation just to see this Potter attraction - I don't buy it. There may be Potter fans that have never had a reason to visit central Florida before and decide that this has pushed them over the edge but they will ultimately also visit WDW. You mentioned "across the pond" but the UK is a massive market for Florida - anywhere between 1m and 2m guests annually over the past fifteen years. In a country of 60m a huge chunk of those visitors are repeaters - they may not go every year but they may every 3 years or so. Time will see I guess. If IoA truly is attracting a whole new audience to central Florida then it is win/win for WDW Co.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Again, saying this is one ride an nothing else is such a gross oversimplification. The land is a complete experience.>> Granted - but calling it a "new" land is also wide of the mark IMHO - it has a number of repurposed attractions, an immersive street setting (which is all retail and dining, right?) and the Kuka ride. What is it - a half-day experience at best? Again I'd be amazed if people are making decisions to visit Orlando based solely on Potterland - I'd be staggered.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It is a shame that Disney lost their bid for the Potter franchise. But from what I am hearing they only pitched one ride that was similar to Buzz except with wands, without ANY focus of actually creating the world of Potter.>> I'm not going to comment on what was imagineered for Potter but it was a whole lot more than a "ride similar to Buzz". Don't let the Uni PR machine tell you anything different - it was a whole lot more than what Uni committed to build. A multi-attraction experience that had a multi-year build-out.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<What is it - a half-day experience at best?>> Sure, that's what I would say. But adding half a day to a park that's already a full day park is a pretty damn good expansion if you ask me. <<Again I'd be amazed if people are making decisions to visit Orlando based solely on Potterland - I'd be staggered.>> Prepare to be amazed and staggered. If the small population of my friends, acuaintances, and family is any indication, this thing will draw people. TONS of people.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>All you can do is look at the quality of the product in the four parks over the last decade and decide whether it in comparable to the quality in previous decades.<<< It doesn't compare, that's the problem. The 90's were great for the parks. I'd imagine that the 80's and 70's were, too. Especially the 80's. Probably the most park based expansion in that time, and the quality of those additions was astounding.
Originally Posted By MPierce <<I have long been of the opinion that Disney has the mindset of an invinceable Giant. They feel that they can do no wrong. They believe they are putting out the best product in the industry. They believe the product they are offering will be gobbled up by the consumer as it always has been in the past. I guarantee you that their research department has enough graphs, and figures to show that HP will have no more of an impact than IOA had on WDW.>> >> I'd agree with Daannzzz here - I don't think WDW Co. thinks it is putting out the best product in the industry - management believe they are putting out what guests want - they believe they are at least meeting the expectations of most guests. << But by providing what guest want, and meeting their expectation isn't that the same as putting out the best product on the market. You can have the most terchnically advanced attraction in the industry, but if it doesn't draw the consumer, it's a flop. Thus that's why I think Disney thinks they are putting forth the best product to draw the largest crowds. I'm basing that on the resort as a whole. Not an individual attraction.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>You can have the most terchnically advanced attraction in the industry, but if it doesn't draw the consumer, it's a flop. Thus that's why I think Disney thinks they are putting forth the best product to draw the largest crowds. I'm basing that on the resort as a whole. Not an individual attraction.<<< Agreed. But, you can't do that, and just aim at one demographic. They need to be firing on all fronts, not just appealing to the Princesses.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Granted - but calling it a "new" land is also wide of the mark IMHO - it has a number of repurposed attractions, an immersive street setting (which is all retail and dining, right?) and the Kuka ride. << As a former Uni AP and someone who has no interest in the Potter series (I saw the first movie because my date wanted to), this new "land" is only marginally interesting to me. The KUKA ride looks interesting, but I doubt I would appreciate the level of Potter-specific detail scattered throughout the land. I've ridden Dueling Dragons many times before, so that's not a "new" experience for me. I know Potter is a pop-culture phenomenon (seems like so many things are these days). But for those of us who aren't interested in the franchise (and that probably included a lot of people aged 30+) this expansion sounds very well-done but also not the kind of thing that a lot of people unfamiliar with the characters, settings, etc. won't be able to appreciate.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> but also not the kind of thing that a lot of people unfamiliar with the characters, settings, etc. will be able to appreciate. << oops...double negative
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Agreed. But, you can't do that, and just aim at one demographic. They need to be firing on all fronts, not just appealing to the Princesses. << I agree with you EE. My only point that I was attempting to make is Disney is looking at it differently than we are. What they are doing is shoring up a few things around the MK. As I stated before, and it's still my opinion, I feel that Disney thinks it has the best product out there. They are not the least bit concerned with HP.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 ">> Granted - but calling it a "new" land is also wide of the mark IMHO - it has a number of repurposed attractions, an immersive street setting (which is all retail and dining, right?) and the Kuka ride. << As a former Uni AP and someone who has no interest in the Potter series (I saw the first movie because my date wanted to), this new "land" is only marginally interesting to me. The KUKA ride looks interesting, but I doubt I would appreciate the level of Potter-specific detail scattered throughout the land. I've ridden Dueling Dragons many times before, so that's not a "new" experience for me. I know Potter is a pop-culture phenomenon (seems like so many things are these days). But for those of us who aren't interested in the franchise (and that probably included a lot of people aged 30+) this expansion sounds very well-done but also not the kind of thing that a lot of people unfamiliar with the characters, settings, etc. won't be able to appreciate." Not even to visit the toilets? Oh, you're off that schtick now. And I am 39 and would visit HPLand in a SECOND!!!!
